General Chat

fair enough Errol but the reports say that there were at least THIRTY people from Social Services involved, that is apart from the number of times she went to hospital. Now surely the fact that there were so many people involved should have alerted someone to the fact that she was in severe danger - the hospital had diagnosed a fractured skull on one occasion apart from all her other injuries. And I have to disagree with you on the point of incompetency - they were totally incompetent or she would never have died, nothing to do with red tape or bureaucracy

But Ann that was my point entirely - you may have thirty people who all logged different events but unless that information if collated properly and shared then it is worthless - again, this is not incompetency, rather the system.
If you have evidence of incompetency then please share but I reiterate that these people (until proven guilty) were not incompetent - the system was!

agreed Errol,but forget the red tape etc,people must report any and everything however minor or major if they are concerned.when i fostered many years ago we had to report even the slightest thing and it was investigated straight away,and if i felt that something wasnt right ,i badjered until i got a response. they cant keep passing the buck and saying "we dont know who was dealing with it".ok it takes a long time to train a social worker,but they should have a section of their training actually living with a family that has problems on a daily basis.Life is not found in a textbook.

wendy

I just cried when I heard what had happened to that baby.
She was the same age as my grandson - and despite being so young, he knows he is loved, looks at everyone who comes near him, loves having a cuddle and lying on his daddy's chest after having his feed. Even at his young age he knows what he wants - to lie on his tummy, against all the 'rules'. He has never had pain inflicted upon him - and trusts everyone.

What must that poor girl felt in her short life?
Hatred, pain, confusion neglect etc etc. She never had the chance to have her 'favourite place'.
I still can't get my head around the abuse she suffered. I can't believe she stayed alive so long.

I can't believe the social workers never saw the despair in her eyes - for her eyes surely weren't looking around to see where the next cuddle was coming from - they must have been as blank and as
joyless as her short, short life.

maggie

Wendy I agree wholeheartedly with you/

Island I think that is a non-debate and a ridiculous thing to say. Of course social workers are more professional - look up the meaning of the word if you disagree.

How could anyone do anything like that to a 54day old baby??

I haven't read all of this thread yet, but Caz, I have to disagree with you lol. I don't think he should hang.

Just let the other prisoners at him!

OH and I were sat having dinner when that came onto the news. Couldn't help but cry when I heard the details.

x

Theresa I think any right thinking person would find it totally abhorrent but I also think we are too quick to criticise overstretched individuals rather that overstretched departments!

Errol,

I know that better than most. Most of the guys I am studying with intend to do the Batchelor in Social Work as thats where my course is geared towards. I couldnt work as a Social Worker it is in the very most part and at the very least one of the most under appreciated occupation. I could not go into work daily to experience and witness some of the most horrible situations you could imagine. We only get case studies at the moment and they make me cry; to see those situations and worse in real life would leave me in a mental institution.

But also, I must add, all these different departments and different areas of social work do nothing to support individual cases. Social Workers should see a case through to the end. My Uncle has paranoid schizaphrenia and has finally been sectioned. However this has taken over 4 years as not one Social Worker would be 'THE ONE' to sign the paper work. In the end he through a brick through his MP's window over a human rights issue and the police surgeon sectioned him. It will only be for a short time until he takes his meds for them in the hospital and then he will be released to the same Social Work team who cant make the decision to help him when he needs help!

However I know its the system thats at fault and not in most cases the individual worker. They are heavily overstretched and not supported from above, hence the fear to make difficult decisions. Because one person could not stand up and say 'remove that baby', she is now dead after an appalling ordeal.

Oooops. Sorry, soap box.

love T.x

the vast majority of social workers I worked with were far too young to have experience of life - in my opinion after having worked in the department for eleven years, it is common sense you need above all else and experience of life. Sitting in seminars will not give anyone that. I know without a doubt that had I been assigned to the case of that little girl she would still be alive and in care and I am not being big headed here - I could not have slept at night knowing what was happening to her - I would have done whatever was needed to make her safe -

How the word *Professional*and those invovled in same breath is an insult to that child, is 30 not enough *Professionals*to have safe guarded that child,,,?totally and utterly in-excusable......heads should roll,,,,,,,,,,

but the father,I have no words to describe him,,,

Theresa
Different hymn sheet - same chorus.
I agree with most of what you say.
It is very easy to base one's own opinion on a personal or individual case but it is important to see both sides and more important if one is in a training or learning environment. A genuine open mind can invoke many more thought provoking thoughts and help one to understand more.
I basically agree with you but I think it is important to provoke debate.

Ann why do you say it with a doubt?

I am absolutely seething over this case, I have never been so flaming mad!!!! I feel like jumping up and down and screaming over it. All those people involved and not one, not one bloody person could manage to do anything about it and the salaries they are on!!!! Believe me, they are on very good pay indeed and whoever is the Director of Social Services in that area should be sacked forthwith as well.

I'm never going to sleep tonight!!!! What's the betting, as in the case of little Victoria Climbie, the case worker involved will go sick with stress over the case

what did I say with a doubt Errol - I'm hopping mad!!

You said:
"I know with a doubt that had I been assigned to the case of that little girl she would still be alive"

think Ann missed out off ,,,and should be without,,,,,,,,,

Oh totally Errol,

What I am saying is that like you say, its not right to apportion blame to the Social Workers on the ground entirely.

Ann,

I dont know about the UK but to even get on the BSW course you have to be at least 23 and pass an exam which is 3 essays based on current issues in Socail Work and then there is an interview. The course itself is 4 years long with 1 year of which being placement. Which means the youngest a qualified Social Worker would be here in Ireland is 27 1/2 (they need to be at least 23 on 1st Jan before the Sept the course starts.)

In practice they try to not take the 23yo on the BSW but steer them to the BSc Social Studies.

What is the situation in the UK?

love T.x

Hi Theresa - I really couldn't tell you what the age is now as I happily left that department in 1983 - all I can say is that the ones we had were in the main all too young. The only good ones were the older ones, ones in their forties and upwards, ones who had had some experience of life, had had children. Another thing thing I couldn't help but notice was the fact that most of them had quite unconventional lives themselves and lots of personal problems and began to wonder if that is why they chose to go into Social Work - I must admit I am very cynical indeed of social workers in general. I did have the pleasure of working with a few really excellent ones who were in touch with the real world, but all too few of them I'm sorry to say.