Genealogy Chat

Dear helpful people,

I am trying to locate the descendants of some long lost cousins of my Grandad. My Mum says their names were Elsie and Leonard Watkinson, Elsie was born around 1904 and Leonard about 1901. Their fathers name was possibly Leonard too, and the mothers maiden name was possibly Smith or Illingworth as Elsie and Leonard jnr are my Grandads cousins, and those are the surnames of his parents.
They are from the Leeds area, but I have several options from FreeBMD for their births, and can't narrow it down
1900 Mar qtr Watkinson Leonard Malton 9d 441
1899 Mar qtr Watkinson Leonard Bramley 9b 334 4l4
1905 Dec qtr Watkinson Leonard Skipton 9a 37
1904 Sept qtr Watkinson Elsie Skipton 9a 26
1902 Dec qtr WATKINSON Elsie Leeds 9b 508
1909 Mar qtr WATKINSON Elsie Ecclesall B. 9c 469
I need to send for one birth certificate so that I can ascertain the mothers maiden name and try and track down which branch of the family she comes from. Unless anyone has any other ideas...

Thanks for your help,
Diane

Thank you Somerset girl - that would make absolute sense as one of the Smith sisters was a Mary Elizabeth....now to find that marriage....

to go with that 1911

Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)

Smith Mary Elizabeth Bramley 9b 626
Watkinson James Bramley 9b 626

1901 England Census
about James Watkinson (Worsted Cloth Finisher)
Name: James Watkinson
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary E
Gender: Male
Where born: Guiseley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Headingley Cum Burley
Ecclesiastical parish: Kirkstall St Stephen
Town: Kirkstall
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: Kirkstall
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 306
Household Members: Name Age
James Watkinson 29
Mary E Watkinson 29
Leonard Watkinson 2
Norman Watkinson 2 months

Sorry SomersetGirl - I think Rambling Rose has it...
Could anyone look up Mary Elizabeth Smith in the 1901 and 1891, so I can check I have the correct Smith. Parents Benjamin and Maria and sister Sarah Ann, my great grandmother.

Thanks - what a big breakthrough - the Smith are so hard to get beyond.
Rose beat me to it! Would you mind checking the 1891 for me too, please?

With the Illingworths

1891 England Census
about Mary Eliz E Smith
Name: Mary Eliz E Smith
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Benjamin
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Female
Where born: Armley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Bramley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Bramley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 52
Maria Smith 54
Mary Eliz E Smith 19
Wm Raishick Illingworth 26 Son in law
Sarah Ann Illingworth 23
Eleanor Illingworth 2/12


View
Original
Record

View original image

That's great Rose - one big happy family. So what became of Benjamin and Maria in the 1901....or is that just being too cheeky?
Somerset girl - I hope you didn't spash out any credits on the 1911 to get that one for me? Big thanks either way.

Now to get them all on my tree and Hot Match with their descendants....

Yes, SomersetGirl, I am sure you have found the correct family....we never knew about Norman, he died a year before my Grandad was born. How sad. Leonard went on to have a son, Leonard, who knew my parents.

I love Genesconnected - I have just found a 100 year old cousin of my grandads - still living!

Thanks all for your excellent help.

Diane just looking for 1901 but there is also a tree on Ancestry with the names coming up?

Not finding Benjamin with Maria on the 1901,

here are the Illingworths though with Leonard


.
1901 England Census
about William Raistrick Illingworth
Name: William Raistrick Illingworth
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Idle, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Selby
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary and St Germain
Town: Selby
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Selby
Sub-registration district: Selby
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 124
Household Members: Name Age
William Raistrick Illingworth 36
Sarah Ann Illingworth 33
Eleanor Illingworth 10
William Edward Illingworth 2 months
Leonard Watkinson 22

Sorry, Rose I don't have an Ancesetry subscrption, and have used up my 2 weeks trial before I started my Mothers line. I did have the outline details sketched into my tree and had guessed at which cousin it was (correctly) but had the worng husbands name, so had never been able to verify the connection.

Do you want the census for Benjamin and Maria prior to the 1891? I have them up at the minute.

Yes, the Leonard aged 22 in the 1901 was confusing me. That was why I was looking for a marriage between Mary Elizabeth Smith and Leonard Watkinson....perhaps James and Leonard are brothers.
Could anyone check the 1891 for the Watkinson so see if my theory is correct, please?

On that 1901 leonard is down as a 'boarder' with the Illingworths here he is 1891 with james

1891 England Census
about Leonard Watkinson
Name: Leonard Watkinson
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Guiseley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Headingley With Burley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephens
Town: Kirkstall
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: Kirkstall
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Watkinson 44
Eliza Watkinson 41
James Watkinson 19 *******
Robert Watkinson 17
Ann E Watkinson 16
Mary E Watkinson 14
Leonard Watkinson 12 *****
John W Watkinson 10
Fred Watkinson 7
Walter Watkinson 5

1861 England Census
about Benjamin Smith
Name: Benjamin Smith
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Lothersdale, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 43
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 22
Maria Smith 24
Ann Smith 8 Mo



1871 England Census
about Benjamin Smith
Name: Benjamin Smith
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Lothersdale, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Armley
Ecclesiastical parish: Armley
Town: Armley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Wortley
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 126
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 34
Maria Smith 32
Hannah Smith 5
Sarah A Smith 3

1881 England Census
about Benjamin Smith
Name: Benjamin Smith
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Lotherdale

Civil parish: Bramley in Bramley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Granhamthorpe
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Night Soil Man

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 42
Maria Smith 44
Hannah Smith 15
Mary Elizabeth Smith 9

Thanks Rose, for solving the Watkinson brothers mystery....there is a healthy family. Could you let me have anything else 1901 and before that you found on Benjamin and Maria. They are hard to pin down. Any Hannah's showing up with them? I'm pretty sure I have I have the correct death cert for him, as I found the newspaper clipping confirming his date of death in my mothers papers. Informant W. Sugden son-in-law, and I found a marriage 1890 Jun qtr Smith Hannah Bramley 9b 587
Sugden Williamson Bramley 9b 587
Or am I missing another possible way he could be the son-in-law?

Diane

Hannah below with Benjamin and Maria in 1881

on 1901 with Williamson Sugden , so looks likely that marriage is right

1901 England Census
about Hannah Sugden
Name: Hannah Sugden
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Williamson
Gender: Female
Where born: Bramley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Bramley
Ecclesiastical parish: Bramley St Peter
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 61
Household Members: Name Age
Williamson Sugden 35
Hannah Sugden 35
Alice Walton 40


Williamson is a grocer/shopkeeper

there is this on 1891 I think it them as the ages have been mistranscribed

1891 England Census
about Hannah Sugden
Name: Hannah Sugden
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Armley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Bramley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Bramley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Sugden 20 *** 28
Hannah Sugden 20 ***26

Thanks again, Rose for solving the Sugden connection.

Now just need the 1901 and 1911 for Benjamin and Maria....

here's 1881 census for James and Leonard with parents,

1881 England Census
about Leonard Watkinson
Name: Leonard Watkinson
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Guiseley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Guiseley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Oswald Place
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wharfedale
Sub-registration district: Yeadon
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Watkinson 34 (woollen weaver )
Eliza Watkinson 31
James Watkinson 9
Robert Watkinson 7
Ann E. Watkinson 6
Mary E. Watkinson 4
Leonard Watkinson 2