Genealogy Chat

Eugh! He had tuned it down to Farmer on his death cert - Funny how it didn't state how many acres...

My Mum wasn't impressed - "But at least he was employed". But it will stop her turning her nose up at Dads Ag Labs. Dad even has a Master Confectioner on his side.

Thank you Maryb, for finding the final piece of the puzzle. It all fit with the marriage, his birthplace and age. Well, quite some family gossip now.

Thanks to all who have helped with this thread.

Diane
x

1911 3,Bell road bramley Leeds.

Benjamin Smith born 1839 Lothersdale near skipton retired farmer
Adeline 1857 born bramley leeds married 14 years.

Maryb

No grass under his feet then, and a younger woman to boot.

Marriages Mar 1897 (>99%)
Bates Adeline Leeds 9b 481
Smith Benjamin Leeds 9b 481

Cheeky chap. No wonder his cause of death was a heart attack.

I think it is what it sounds like lol

this may be Maria's death, which would fit in with a second marriage for Benjamin. I don't have 1911 credits so hopefully someone can look

Deaths Dec 1896 (>99%)
Smith Maria 59 Bramley 9b 222

Thanks again Rose...by the way does anyone know what a Night Soil man would do...it doesn't sound very nice. I have a mug that was once owned by Benjamin. I'd better give it a good wash!

He makes my Ag Labs look classy!

I'm not certain Diane, but not finding them in 1901 I am wondering if maria had died? there are several possible deaths between 1891 and 1901...and there is also a marriage which may or may not be Benjamin ?

Perhaps if someone can look on the 1911 it will clear that up,

possible?

1901 England Census
about Benjamin Smith
Name: Benjamin Smith
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Adeline
Gender: Male
Where born: Dale End Carlton Parish

Civil parish: Bramley
Ecclesiastical parish: Bramley St Peter
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 62
Adeline Smith 44


View
Original
Record

View original image

here's 1881 census for James and Leonard with parents,

1881 England Census
about Leonard Watkinson
Name: Leonard Watkinson
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Guiseley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Guiseley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Oswald Place
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wharfedale
Sub-registration district: Yeadon
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Watkinson 34 (woollen weaver )
Eliza Watkinson 31
James Watkinson 9
Robert Watkinson 7
Ann E. Watkinson 6
Mary E. Watkinson 4
Leonard Watkinson 2

Thanks again, Rose for solving the Sugden connection.

Now just need the 1901 and 1911 for Benjamin and Maria....

there is this on 1891 I think it them as the ages have been mistranscribed

1891 England Census
about Hannah Sugden
Name: Hannah Sugden
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Armley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Bramley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Bramley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Sugden 20 *** 28
Hannah Sugden 20 ***26

Hannah below with Benjamin and Maria in 1881

on 1901 with Williamson Sugden , so looks likely that marriage is right

1901 England Census
about Hannah Sugden
Name: Hannah Sugden
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Williamson
Gender: Female
Where born: Bramley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Bramley
Ecclesiastical parish: Bramley St Peter
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 61
Household Members: Name Age
Williamson Sugden 35
Hannah Sugden 35
Alice Walton 40


Williamson is a grocer/shopkeeper

Thanks Rose, for solving the Watkinson brothers mystery....there is a healthy family. Could you let me have anything else 1901 and before that you found on Benjamin and Maria. They are hard to pin down. Any Hannah's showing up with them? I'm pretty sure I have I have the correct death cert for him, as I found the newspaper clipping confirming his date of death in my mothers papers. Informant W. Sugden son-in-law, and I found a marriage 1890 Jun qtr Smith Hannah Bramley 9b 587
Sugden Williamson Bramley 9b 587
Or am I missing another possible way he could be the son-in-law?

Diane

1861 England Census
about Benjamin Smith
Name: Benjamin Smith
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Lothersdale, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 43
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 22
Maria Smith 24
Ann Smith 8 Mo



1871 England Census
about Benjamin Smith
Name: Benjamin Smith
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Lothersdale, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Armley
Ecclesiastical parish: Armley
Town: Armley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Wortley
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 126
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 34
Maria Smith 32
Hannah Smith 5
Sarah A Smith 3

1881 England Census
about Benjamin Smith
Name: Benjamin Smith
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Lotherdale

Civil parish: Bramley in Bramley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Granhamthorpe
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Night Soil Man

Registration district: Bramley
Sub-registration district: Bramley
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Smith 42
Maria Smith 44
Hannah Smith 15
Mary Elizabeth Smith 9

On that 1901 leonard is down as a 'boarder' with the Illingworths here he is 1891 with james

1891 England Census
about Leonard Watkinson
Name: Leonard Watkinson
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Guiseley, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Headingley With Burley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephens
Town: Kirkstall
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: Kirkstall
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Watkinson 44
Eliza Watkinson 41
James Watkinson 19 *******
Robert Watkinson 17
Ann E Watkinson 16
Mary E Watkinson 14
Leonard Watkinson 12 *****
John W Watkinson 10
Fred Watkinson 7
Walter Watkinson 5

Yes, the Leonard aged 22 in the 1901 was confusing me. That was why I was looking for a marriage between Mary Elizabeth Smith and Leonard Watkinson....perhaps James and Leonard are brothers.
Could anyone check the 1891 for the Watkinson so see if my theory is correct, please?

Do you want the census for Benjamin and Maria prior to the 1891? I have them up at the minute.

Sorry, Rose I don't have an Ancesetry subscrption, and have used up my 2 weeks trial before I started my Mothers line. I did have the outline details sketched into my tree and had guessed at which cousin it was (correctly) but had the worng husbands name, so had never been able to verify the connection.

Not finding Benjamin with Maria on the 1901,

here are the Illingworths though with Leonard


.
1901 England Census
about William Raistrick Illingworth
Name: William Raistrick Illingworth
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Idle, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Selby
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary and St Germain
Town: Selby
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Selby
Sub-registration district: Selby
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 124
Household Members: Name Age
William Raistrick Illingworth 36
Sarah Ann Illingworth 33
Eleanor Illingworth 10
William Edward Illingworth 2 months
Leonard Watkinson 22

Diane just looking for 1901 but there is also a tree on Ancestry with the names coming up?

Yes, SomersetGirl, I am sure you have found the correct family....we never knew about Norman, he died a year before my Grandad was born. How sad. Leonard went on to have a son, Leonard, who knew my parents.

I love Genesconnected - I have just found a 100 year old cousin of my grandads - still living!

Thanks all for your excellent help.