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Dea,

Gosh! I didn't even know about John Henry. I'll follow this up - I've just found an entry on census 1891. I can't find details that show him being a son of Patrick and Margaret though. Where did you find that please?

Can't stop just now as I'm in the middle of cooking lunch but will be back when we have finished!

Do you have access to Ancestry??

There is a tree on there with him on + they have all the certs etc.

If you don't have access I will send them to you later.

Dea Xxx

thanks. I don't use Ancestry - only this for forums and find my past for info

O.K. then - I am back............

This is what I have found and I am going to try to send you the certs by pm. - As I am not very 'technical', please let me know if you receive them.

John Henry Morgan
Birth 29th october 1872 in Pendleton salford lancaster
Death 30th october 1936 in salford south lancashire




Birth Certificate
Adoption Decree
Marriage Certificate
Death Certificate


Birth
1872 29 Oct
Pendleton salford lancaster



Residence
1891 Age: 19
Pendleton, Lancashire, England

Marriage to Mary Eliza Furness
1896 3 Aug Age: 23
salford lancashire england


Adoption of a daughter - (Have removed the details in case she is still alive but have sent you the cert by pm) !
1934 4 Oct Age: 61


Death
1936 30 Oct Age: 64
salford south lancashire



Residence
2 Bank Street, Pendleton Salford


Dea x






Winess to John Henry's wedding:


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9, Lord Street, Pendleton, Salford, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
***Joseph B Wyers Head Married Male 33 1868 Blacksmith Staffordshire, England

Mary Wyers Wife Married Female 36 1865 - Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

Jno Lever Visitor Single Male 27 1874 Striker To Blacksmith Staffordshire, England




Marriages Dec 1886 ?????
DAVIES Mary Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view
Edmead Frederick Leo Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view
PERKIN Florence Maude Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view
Wyers Joseph Benjamin Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view


other witness:


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
31, Hedwig Street, Pendleton, Salford, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Margaret Hughes Head Widow Female 60 1841 Provision Shop Keeper Manchester, Lancashire, England



??????

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hope Street, Salford, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Hughes Head Married Male 52 1839 Beerhouse Keeper Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Hughes Wife Married Female 52 1839 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Alfred Hughes Son - Male 14 1877 Striker Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Thomas Reynold Boarder Single Male 49 1842 Labourer Manchester, Lancashire, England


or.......


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
38, Lord Nelson Street, Salford, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Hughes Head Married Male 45 1836 Fustian Cutter Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Hughes Wife Married Female 40 1841 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
William Hughes Son Single Male 20 1861 Clerk (Comm) Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Samuel Hughes Son Single Male 18 1863 Porter Irlam, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Edward Hughes Son Single Male 16 1865 Ustian Cutter Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
John Hughes Son Single Male 7 1874 Scholar Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Mary Ellen Hughes Daughter Single Female 3 1878 - Salford, Lancashire, England

Dea,

thank you so much. I've got the attachments. This is all new stuff now. Do you mind me asking but does the tree on Ancestry have more info about the Morgan family or was John Henry picked up because he had married Mary Furness?
Is it worth me subscribing to that website also?

brilliant work and thanks. :-D

The tree owner has no more info than we have, unfortunately - nothing going back at all

It might be worth me trying to contact him to see if he has any new info

I will do it within the next day or two

Dea Xxx

thank you

it's hard reading through a long thread (and I am not even going to attempt the other one) but I'm just wondering whether it's been picked up that the wife in 1911 was a second wife

'(Married 10yrs, 4 children born, 2 living, 2 died)'

that is, married after the births of the two older children

and the baptism record for Rose with

'Mary Ellen (formerly Mackroy)'

just wondering whether the second marriage certificate might give any further info about Patrick that could be useful

but I can't find a marriage ...

Deaths Jun 1897 ?
Morgan Mary Ellen 25 Salford 8d 71

Thanks Joonie, we had explored that but unfortunately we don't believe that he ever married his second 'wife' :-(

Dea x

Message sent to the person with the tree on Ancestry but I don't hold out much hope as I see he has not logged into that site for over a year. :-(

He does not appear to be 'directly' related to your family so I doubt if he has anything more but I will let you know if I hear back from him.

Dea x

thanks Dea :-)

Hi,

can anybody see census record for 15 Rossall Street Pendleton Salford Lancashire on 1901 census please? It doesn't seem to be there.

I suppose it is unoccupied.....

I can only see the even numbers enumerated on the 1901 for Rossall St Clive - Nos. 2 - 20 :-(

Dea x

I have to run off Dea so can't do it, but did you check the district descriptions? the odd numbers may be in a different subdistrict or whatever they're called if the street was the dividing line

I'm probably trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs :-)

no offence intended !!! :-D

I checked the nearby districts and found the odd numbers. - No. 15 is indeed there and uninhabited :-(

Dea x


EDIT - just refreshed and have now seen that you suggested that above Joonie - suggestions are always welcome, thank you :-D

Dea x

thank you

Hi Clive,

Nothing further to report just yet but while I was looking around for anything about Smith's Buildings and Rossall St I discovered that Smith's Buildings was at the top end of Rossall St.

I also discovered that Rossall Street was originally Franchise St but there was a murder in one of the houses and the street was renamed to deter goulish sightseers. I couldn't find anything in the newspapers regarding this but I traced through several burials and found that this must have happened between 1891 and 1893.

There is a book in existance about the area which mentions something about this and I found a copy available through Amazon which I have purchased - it should arrive by the weekend.

I don't know if there will be anything useful in it for either of us but I will certainly let you know if there is.

Dea x

That's interesting, maybe it has some old photos of the streets.
I have just received death cert for Patrick. 10 Jan 1895 69 years old when died. Informant was his sister-in-law Elizabeth Gibbons. He was living at Gill Street.

Good morning Clive,

I was a bit worried about that death cert for Patrick as the age is WAY out !

There is often a couple of years difference on death certs if the informant is not quite sure but this one is 8 years older than he should be.

However, Elizabeth Gibbons' maiden name was Jones and if I have the correct one, she had a sister Margaret of the right age to the Margaret Jones who 'married' Patrick. Their Father was Thomas, a Gardener.

Was there an address for Elizabeth on the death cert?

Dea x

P.S. - The address of Gill St. - Is this just familiar to me of have we had someone else at Gill St. during this search? - Is there a number given ?

Dea x