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Just noticed she's down as Catherine. Maybe not so good after all. Getting over excited.

Problem is, I am not the best person to advise you really. Will put out a plea for assistance!
Jan

Shame she is down as catherine rather than Kathleen but will keep an open mind.

Didn't go over to the next page so didn't see you reply, sorry. Thanks Jan

Not sure that the difference is very significant - might not be her obviously, but if you think how it sounds, it's hard to distinguish the two names, so I wouldn't dismiss it just on that basis.

EDIT crossed posts there!

Jan

Especially with an Irish accent.

Re Kathleen/ Catherine...my gt aunt was known as Kathleen to all the family but is down on the census' ( and birth) as Catherine...so it's worth considering.

do you have death certs for grandparents?

No I don't. Do you think I should? What might I get from them?

Well death certs are only good if the person registering it was sure of the details they were giving!
I just wondered if the index has any middle names that might help. I have just come across a marriage and chldrens births that only gave mothers name then death index gave a middle name which was right and helped in the search.

Are these Gordon's army details?
Name: Gordon Simmonds
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Age at enlistment: 19
Birth Parish: Tottenham
Birth County: Middlesex
Document Year: 1911
Regimental Number: 9563
Number of images: 10

Yes, his DOB was 17th Sept 1890 - I have his christening mug here with me. He was born in Tottenham. No middle name.

I know this is'nt the lady you are looking for but there doesn't seem to be many Gordon's without a middle name and i wonder about this one cannot find any details apart from this entry for Ethel?
Name: Gordon Simmonds
Spouse Ethel M Busselle
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1921
Registration district: Kensington
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 462

My Father Gordon William Simmonds was born in 1918. I know a lot of children were born out of wedlock but I just don't think it would be the case in this instance, knowing what the family were like. All the family married and had children in the conventional order. I find it difficult to believe they didn't or were a bit late in doing so! Go on, prove me wrong! i know every family has it's black sheep.

I have never found his army records. Where do I go to get those that you brought up, Jan? I see it says 10 images. I have often wondered if they might throw up a clue or two.

The army records are on Ancestry 17th Aug 1911- 29th Aug 1916 discharged unfit for service

A clerk

next of kin father Frederick William
mother?(cannot read it)
brother's at home Frederick and Richard

edit i see on 1911 census mother is Alice but i think she is step mum as it says married 16 yrs and Gordon is recorded as being 20yrs old

I see they also have army pension records which it says may throw up details of spouse. Is that a possibility?
I really think I shall have to try to afford a short sub to Ancestry. Thanks for all your help & time.

These are from pension pages -no wife says he is single and father next of kin. You can get free trial on Ancestry you have to put in card details so have to remember to cancel before end of free period so they don't take out money . You can also access it on library computers.

for info if you look on Ancestry for census details this is them mistranscribed in 1891 so this was his mother who must have died and father married again. this is a hard image to read so not sure what in laws names are really
Name: Gordon Lemonds
Age: 6/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Frederick Lemonds
Mother's Name: Emma Lemonds
Gender: Male
Where born: Tottenham, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Hallows
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England



hold Members:
Name Age
Frederick Lemonds 40
Emma Lemonds 24
Frederick J Lemonds 4
Emma M Lemonds 2
Gordon Lemonds 6/12
Rickard Serwimer 61 father in law
Ellena Serwimer 66 mother in law

possibly this marriage for parents---if only Gordon's could be found!!
Marriages Dec 1885


Scrivener Emma Bethnal Green vol. 1c page 442
SIMMONDS Frederick William Bethnal Green


2nd marriage
Marriages Dec 1893

Simmonds Frederick William Edmonton 3a 488
Stanbrook Alice Hannah M Edmonton 3a 488

Yes, these are all correct family. Emma Simmonds (nee Scrivener) died post child birth with Puerpural Fever. Richard (Gordon's brother was born deaf so we think they probably had measles. Frederick married Alice Stanbrook within a few months - think she was friend of family. You are a star looking all this up. How on earth did you find the misspelled entries?! As you say if only you could find Gordon & May's marriage I would be over the moon.

Jan, what is the date in army pension pages when it states he is single?
Thanks