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Marion

Not sure about the 1911 census with May living with mother and sister.
Although Middlesex, living in Acton which is a long way from Tottenham.

Not sure why you think they may have married in Ireland. Not likely for the couple to travel to Ireland from England just to get married,

I'm not sure how he ended up in Croydon. Do you have any ideas?
Didn't think people from north London ever went south of the river!


Regards

Vera

Thanks Vera
I have PMd you. I have re read what you said previously about May possibly being married before. I have searched thoroughly under the name May Brian and haven't turned up anything. And so it goes on......................

jan & jan!
The death certs haven't helped at all. May's informant section says "Mary Phyllis Percival. Causing the body to be cremated, Warlingham Park Hospital, Chelsham" I take it that this was a member of hospital staff. She died 9th June 1965 as Widow of Gordon Simmonds aged 75 years. No other avenue now.......................

Thanks for your interest.

Marian

Not sure if you ever got the army records. If not pm me your e mail and I can forward them. They are a mine of information.

Vera

Marion

Just a few thoughts re possible marriages for May and Gordon your g/parents

We know your father Gordon W was born in Croydon 1918.
Your g/father Gordon b 1890 was single when discharged from Army in 1916.
He was in an Army Hospital in Portsmouth in 1916.

Between 1916 and 1918, when your father was born, your g/father was in Portsmouth, Hants and Croydon, Surrey and possibly Tottenham, Middlesex.

I wonder too if May Brian or Bryan {as recorded on two birth certs for Gordon and Ronald} could have been married before. These were war years with lots of young deaths. The name Brian/Bryan would have been her maiden name but not necessarily the name she would have put on a marriage cert.

Do you know if your grandfather returned to Tottenham after his discharge in 1916.

Just some thoughtd for the melting pot otherwise i might forget them tomorrow.

Regards

Vera

Will keep this post bookmarked so please post death cert info when you get it
Good Luck!

Well, we can't let this go now can we? Maybe if you get her death cert it might offer a clue, so I would do that and come back if you get more info.
Nobody else is going to come to this thread so I would suggest posting on tips board asking about Irish research, at the same time directing people to this thread.

The other (pretty remote) possibility is that there are still neighbours around who were friendly with them and know something, so addresses from the certs might offer another line of enquiry.

Good luck!

Jan

I think all avenues are exhausted now, aren't they? Is there someone who might help re Co Tyrone/Irish records? Perhaps Kathleen gave birth to May in Middlesex but went straight back to Ireland and registered her there - if that was allowed?? Perhaps her and Gordon Simmonds married over there?

I don't really want to give up yet, but then it's not me doing all the brain work. I will get death certs for May & Gordon but don't know what else to look for.

Once again, thanks for all help given.

Off to catch a train down to London now and wont be back until 9.30-10pmish.
Many thanks
M

Both!!!

Are you referring to me or May!

Yes, July/Aug/Sep 1961 Croydon Surrey for Gordon Simmonds death. Pretty sure that's him.

Probably not, though sometimes certs can be surprisingly informative.

The 1911 does look very likely but sadly gets us back to where we started! My only other suggestion is to search any addresses you have on electoral register as suggested before, in case they throw up any other possibilities.

What a very difficult woman.

Jan

Sorry finger slipped!

May Simmonds died in Croydon, Surrey 1965 aged 75 which fits with year of birth 1890
Gordon died Croydon 1961 aged 70
Don't know how much value there is to getting these certs. What do you think?
And yes, you;re right it's Bryant on Ronald's birth cert

May Simmonds died in Croydon

Ginny, it's May's mother who is believed to have been born in Co. Tyrone, and May in Middlesex, so the 1911 does look a possibility.
Jan.

Bryan or Bryant?

Births Sep 1923 (>99%)
Simmonds Ronald H Bryant Croydon 2a 498

Possible deaths?

Name: May Simmonds
Death Registration Month/Year: 1955
Age at death (estimated): 70
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 165

Name: May L Simmonds
Death Registration Month/Year: 1960
Age at death (estimated): 66
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 58

Name: Jessica May Simmonds
Birth Date: 16 May 1904
Death Registration Month/Year: Nov 1992
Age at death (estimated): 88
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Volume: 11
Page: 1484

Yes Jan I have the same problem with coming in on a thread.

OK so May Brian/Bryan could have been born in Ireland?

Can you post Mays death details if you have them please

x

Do you know when/where either of them died?
Jan

Jan & Ginny

To recap as there is confusion over names now ,with thread being so long

My Father was Gordon William Simmonds b27/11/1918 Croydon, Surrey
His Father was Gordon (no middle name - I have birth cert) b17/9/1890 Tottenham
His Father was Frederick William Simmonds b3/3/1849 Tottenham

Gordon William's Mother is named as May Simmonds formerly BRIAN on birth cert
but on his brother Ronald H's born 1923 she is listed as BRYAN

I cannot trace a marriage to Gordon (or May's birth) although I think I have her on the census 1911 aged 21 with her Mother Kathleen aged 60
Kathleen was or Irish origin Co Tyrone (anecdotal - no proof but looks probable) and May was from Middlesex

Gordon is single when discharged during WW1 August 1916
I know nothing of siblings or any other info.
Any suggestions (apart from go away!!) greatly appreciated.

Thank you
M

One problem is the name has varied as you might expect. Ginny, you aren't being thick - don't know about you but I find it hard to get a handle on well-established threads like this.

Anyway, basically we have 2 sons of George Simmonds, Marion's father and uncle. Their mother is May Brian/Bryan. Family story has it that May's mother was Irish. And that is it.

This is the basis on which we have the 1911. With hindsight, I should have asked for death details for May if Marion has them, because there is no birth year for her as yet.

I am the thick one I think!

Jan

Ive been looking for May Biran?

Im still being thick!