Find Ancestors

Bugger....meanwhile, I am updating all of those names from the family site..at 3.45am LOL.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=1002308&queryType=1&resultcount=1

The direct link for the will


Tracey x

Well some of the will has been deciphered, and there is mention of his daughter Anne, who married Sir William Button.
Surprisingly though, I can not find any mention of Sir Button??? The only person of this name is from Ireland.
Both Anne and William had died before 1624.
Considering Cornelius was of high stature, and had a knight as a son in law, you would think there would be plenty of information about his family.

OK, Can someone please explain to me why a Knight...a titled gentleman..named in public, does NOT exist in any records??? Not in the peerage list, not in any IGI records, nothing nowhere!!
I have found Sir William Button, but not the same person.
Cornelius states in his will his daughter Jame Anne and her husband Sir William Button knight.
Any suggestions?

Back then, they were handed out quite often, my Skinner tree has many Knights in it, none of which come up on any radar.

You have to remember unless they were groundbreaking and 'did' something of note, they would have been just landowners, and thats not very newsworthy!

I would imagine in their day they were probably notorious, but sadly this has been lost through history.

I shall have a lok at the Times Online and see what comes up.

Having looked at the news article on Cornelius Fish, he only appears in the papers once because of his position....and his relationship to Lincolns Inn and the government of the day. He wasn't really newsworthy himself either, just a man of note locally, who clearly had money also.


Tracey x

Ahh yes. I did read somewhere about knighthoods handed out freely, but still, you would think there was some mention.
I have found snippets re Cornelius...had his fingers in a few pies it would seem, but apart from being chamberlaine of London, he seemed prominent in helping the poor and responsible for the handouts. He was also church warden at St Mary Woolchurch. I found a record of his wife's burial..but she was listed as Mrs. Cornelius Fish.
What interested me looking through the church records was a John Fish, clerk of the church. He, along with many others, lost a lot of children to the plague. He was married to Alice.
Maybe he is a link also?
As 'my' John was born 1660, he could well have been a son of John the clerk and Alice.

It's highly possible. Alot of it from where you are at going backwards will more than certainly be circumstantial.

This is why i said about getting all the data together and then looking at what you have before we make 'best guesses'

You'll also have to remember your starting to get into the terratory of surname origins. I would guess Fish was an occupational surname, and not a kinship one or a location one. So at some point they may not have been local to the area? Or if there is a big river near where you have them now they could have come from there?

We most def need a bigger picture.... and it's an interesting journey getting there also!


T x

hi
www.esfh.org.uk
you can buy cd,s
Essex Poor Law Documents, Indexes and Transcripts, 1574-1895
Essex has over 400 ancient parishes, many of which have surviving settlement papers among their parish records. These include Settlement Certificates, Removal Orders, Settlement Examinations, records of Apprenticeship and Bastardy Examinations. Many thousands of such records survive in the Essex Record Office. This CD has a full index of some 40,000 names and replaces the original production on microfiche together with some additional poor law records which have recently been discovered.

Ty safc.
Would you kow how much they are?
Thing is, I am not so much looking for records for the pure pleasure of it, it's to try and connect John Fish 1660, with other Fish names in the same area.
Though it is always fascinating to read what your ancestors got up to in the past, and to look at 350 yr old handwriting amazes me.
Speaking of which Tracey, I wonder if it's worth looking into our sheep rustler John???

hi
they are £12 could be worth buying
go to web address for essex family history lots of other info on site

Interestingly Tracey, I have been looking at family webpages with Fish relatives, and one of them gives the coat of arms and history of the name etc.
They have all been USA sites, so the English details get skipped over, but one of them stated how the Fish name came from the people that primarily fished, and even in the 1600 records I have been looking at, many a mention of fines and licenses to drag the river and amount of fish that can be taken, or must be supplied.
They all had different areas that they claim their Fish ancestors came from.
I still think that for all of my ancestors to have lived in the same or very close area, and to find other Fishies earlier in also the same area and parish should be seriously followed.
I was just hoping that a person of nobility, or high authority/note, would be easier to find details about rather than say, John the sheep stealer.
But wow...have I learned so much the last couple of days.

TY safc again.
Yes, I have been using the Essex site to gather information on some Fish characters...it's very useful.

Wendy, before you buy anything, and yourself safc, always check www.archive.org

These parish register sites only have CD's transcribed from actual books, and make alot of money from them, far too much for my liking.

Always check archive.org first and use phillimore as your search term and the county your looking for or the county and the term parish records, you'll be amazed by the outcome. Thousands of books out of copywrite all scanned in and available free..... thats how these sites get away with it, because the books are out of copywrite!

I'm all about sharing of informatin...but not at an unnessessary cost!



T x

I was able to scour through the St Mary Woolchurch records today..scanned from a book that had been opened for viewing.

I am trying a different angle on the search.
Can anyone please confirm/elaborate on a Margaret Fish. Baptised August 3rd 1660 Stansted Mountfitchet. Daughter of John Fish.
I found the record while searching parish entries for Essex.
Margaret's entry could be a link, possibly his sister.

PS Tracey.....I was able to look at the sheep stealing report...damned if I know where I put it now...and John didn't steal the sheep, he reported it and was a witness and testified to the person he saw do it!
I have found a 5th cousin once removed here in Australia that has shared a lot of information, mostly regarding one of the ancestors that was shipped to Australia as a convict.

I have no idea about these but have a look and see what you think


London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
about Margarett Fish
Name: Margarett Fish
Baptism Date: 23 Feb 1662
Parish: St Mary At Lambeth
COUNTY: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Parent(s): Joeter Fish
Record Type: Baptism


London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
about Margaret Fish
Name: Margaret Fish
Marriage Date: 2 Apr 1682
Parish: St James Duke´S Place
COUNTY: London
Borough: City of London
Spouse: Phillip Tayler
Record Type: Marriage


London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
about Margaret Fish
Name: Margaret Fish
Marriage Date: 31 Mar 1685
Parish: St James Duke´S Place
COUNTY: London
Borough: City of London
Spouse: Thomas Banwell
Record Type: Marriage

nnn

TY Ginny.
Baptism is not her, definitely 1660 Stansted Mountfitchet.
The marriages are certainly worth looking into.
If we can find one with John Fish as her father, that would be a step in the right direction.
:)

County London (City)
Place Duke's Place Aldgate
Church St James
RegisterNumber
MarriageDate 31 Mar 1685
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname BANWELL
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation
GroomAbode
BrideForename Margaret
BrideSurname FISH
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode
GroomFatherForename
GroomFatherSurname
GroomFatherOccupation
BrideFatherForename
BrideFatherSurname
BrideFatherOccupation
WitnessOneForename David
WitnessOneSurname WILLFORD
WitnessTwoForename
WitnessTwoSurname
Notes
FileNumber 16348