General Chat

len..... i'm digging this out again as it fits so well at the moment.... off to docs and have already been agreed coundelling sessions to lift this destructive black cloud..... I hope and pray I don't need anti depressants but if i do then so be it!! please think positively for me.

Well done Diana, for going to your doctor and getting help - sometimes that alone takes an effort. Do hope you will be feeling better soon, I have suffered from depression on and off for years and years and wish there was a magic wand to sort us all out. Take care. Liz

Nothing wrong with anti-depressants. They're not addictive, and they can really help. Take care :-)xxx

I have just read through this informative and caring thread and feel it may help peeps on here who are dealing with depression, I have suffered reactive depression for a long while since having PND after my 2nd child, I feel there is a strong genetic link as many family members have suffered, my OH has suffered badly and took an overdose last year. I have felt the lowest ever during the time he has been in Iraq and send my love to all who suffer, Carolxxxxxxxxx

Hugs to all of you who have suffered from, or are suffering now from, this awful complaint. I've heard people saying to sufferers 'pull yourself together'; I could shoot them for saying that.

I met a lovely lady once who was telling me about her life etc she was very open and had a few interesting stories to tell.She was asking me about my family etc and during our time together the topic of depression came up, I told her I had had a bit of depression, she looked at me and said 'my dear there is no such thing as a touch of depression, she was so right!! I think it's a good thing people can talk about this, I know when I had it first I didn't tell anyone just my close family. Someone at one point did tell me to cheer up, I could have throttled them!!!

Hi David, I can tell you my experience with St johns wort! I took it for 12 months after my Dad died, its also surpose to help the stress from coming off the ciggies, if thats what you mean. there can be side affects, skin rashes,I did get a rash but had No idea what it was until I stopped taking it and it went, ask at your health shop first:-))

david, this is from my friends website, hope it helps. What is St. John’s Wort? St. John's Wort is an herb that has been used for centuries for various medicinal purposes, mainly for treating depression. Although the composition of St. John's Wort and how it works are not fully understood, there is no denying that it is very effective in treating mild to moderate depression and anxiety. However, it is necessary to note that, according to recent studies, St. John's Wort is of no benefit in treating major depression of moderate severity. More research is required to help us know whether St. John's Wort has value in treating other forms of depression. St. John's Wort (Hypericum Perforatum in Latin) is a long-living plant with yellow flowers. It contains many chemical compounds, including hypericin and hyperforin, which are the ones that are thought to help treat depression. Although experts are not yet sure how these compounds actually work in our bodies, several theories have been suggested. Preliminary studies suggest that St. John's Wort might work by preventing nerve cells in the brain from reabsorbing the chemical messenger serotonin, or by reducing levels of a protein involved in the body's immune system functioning. Despite the fact that we cannot be certain exactly how this herbal remedy works, St. John's Wort has been used for centuries to treat mental disorders as well as nerve pain. In ancient times, doctors and herbalists wrote about its use as a sedative and treatment for malaria as well as a balm for wounds, burns, menstrual pain and insect bites. Today, St. John's Wort is mainly used to treat mild to moderate depression, anxiety, or sleep disorders. Why do people take St. John’s Wort? There are three main reasons why people choose to use St. John’s Wort instead of prescribed anti-depressants. Firstly, some patients who take antidepressant drugs do not experience relief from their depression. Furthermore, many patients report unpleasant side- effects from their prescription medication, such as a dry mouth, nausea, headache, or effects on sexual function or sleep. Secondly, some people turn to herbal remedies like St. John's Wort because they believe that ‘natural’ products are better for them than prescription medications, or that natural products are always safe. As we will see below, neither of these statements are true. The third reason why some people tend to prefer St. John’s Wort over prescribed medication is due to cost. This is especially true in the US where prescribed medications are much more expensive than herbal remedies such as St. John’s Wort, which are sold over the counter. Is St. John’s Wort widely prescribed for depression/anxiety? In Europe, St. John's Wort is widely prescribed for depression. In the US, St. John's Wort is not a prescription medication, but there is considerable public interest in this herbal remedy and it remains among the top-selling herbal products in the US. St. John's Wort products are sold in three forms: capsules, teas (the dried herb is added to boiling water and brewed for a short period of time) and extracts (specific types of chemicals are removed from the herb leaving the wanted chemicals in a concentrated form). Does St. John’s Wort really work? The real question is whether or not St. John’s Wort really does treat depression and anxiety effectively. In Europe, results from a number of scientific studies have supported the effectiveness of certain St. John's Wort extracts for both depression and anxiety. An overview of 23 European clinical studies found that the herb might be useful in cases of mild to moderate depression/anxiety. The studies, which included 1,757 outpatients, reported that St. John's Wort was more effective than a placebo (a ‘dummy’ pill designed to have no effect) and appeared to produce fewer side effects than some standard antidepressants (British Medical Journal, 1996). St. John’s Wort is also widely used by Americans who want to treat their own depression, but Dr P. Murali Doraiswamy, a psychiatrist at Duke University, North Carolina, spoke of his reservations at a recent conference, claiming that some of the studies were too small to be reliable and that long-term data was lacking. He also pointed out that the herb had not been compared with the most effective prescription drugs like Prozac and Zoloft. Most scientific reviewers claim that St John's Wort is promising but that its results remain unproven. The main problem is that many people take it irregularly and at incorrect doses. Because depression/anxiety is a serious illness and a major cause of suicide, the trend to self-medicate is worrying. Several studies of St John's Wort are now in progress in the United States. It is mainly herbalists who believe that St. John’s Wort is as effective in treating depression and anxiety as prescribed medications. Keith Robertson, a qualified herbalist who practises in Glasgow and is Director of Education at the Scottish School of Herbal Medicine, believes that St John's Wort is a gentle herb and effective herb. Most herbalists claim that they have been prescribing it for years and have never encountered any problems. The Risks and the Side-Effects: It is necessary to realise that there are risks involved in taking St. John’s Wort. Many so-called ‘natural’ substances can have harmful effects, especially if they are taken in too large a quantity or if they interact with another medication that the person is taking. The Medicines Control Agency issued a warning on March 1st 2000 that St. John’s Wort should not be taken by anyone who is already on any other medication until they have consulted their doctor. Research has shown that St. John's Wort interacts with some drugs, including certain drugs used to control HIV infections, such as Indinavir. Other research shows that St. John's Wort can interact with chemotherapeutic, or anticancer, drugs, such as Irinotecan. The herb may also interact with drugs that help prevent the body from rejecting transplanted organs, such as cyclosporine. More recent research has shown that St. John’s Wort can also counteract birth control pills. Using St. John's Wort limits the effectiveness of these medications. This herbal remedy is also thought to limit the effects of medications that are taken for asthma, epilepsy, migraines and heart problems. The authorities in the Irish Republic have gone further by banning the over-the-counter sale of the ancient herbal remedy since January 1st, 2000. It is now available only on prescription. One must also note that some people can experience side effects from taking St. John's Wort. The most common side effects include dry mouth, dizziness, diarrhoea, nausea, increased sensitivity to sunlight, and fatigue. Although it is widely thought that St. John’s Wort is a safe herbal remedy that will not cause any long-lasting negative side-effects unless it mixes with certain other medications, please do consult your doctor before you start to take it in order to ensure that you take the correct dosage in an appropriate way!!

st.johns wort... continued. The Risks and the Side-Effects: It is necessary to realise that there are risks involved in taking St. John’s Wort. Many so-called ‘natural’ substances can have harmful effects, especially if they are taken in too large a quantity or if they interact with another medication that the person is taking. The Medicines Control Agency issued a warning on March 1st 2000 that St. John’s Wort should not be taken by anyone who is already on any other medication until they have consulted their doctor. Research has shown that St. John's Wort interacts with some drugs, including certain drugs used to control HIV infections, such as Indinavir. Other research shows that St. John's Wort can interact with chemotherapeutic, or anticancer, drugs, such as Irinotecan. The herb may also interact with drugs that help prevent the body from rejecting transplanted organs, such as cyclosporine. More recent research has shown that St. John’s Wort can also counteract birth control pills. Using St. John's Wort limits the effectiveness of these medications. This herbal remedy is also thought to limit the effects of medications that are taken for asthma, epilepsy, migraines and heart problems. The authorities in the Irish Republic have gone further by banning the over-the-counter sale of the ancient herbal remedy since January 1st, 2000. It is now available only on prescription. One must also note that some people can experience side effects from taking St. John's Wort. The most common side effects include dry mouth, dizziness, diarrhoea, nausea, increased sensitivity to sunlight, and fatigue. Although it is widely thought that St. John’s Wort is a safe herbal remedy that will not cause any long-lasting negative side-effects unless it mixes with certain other medications, please do consult your doctor before you start to take it in order to ensure that you take the correct dosage in an appropriate way!!

I'm going to read all your info later Bryan but to add emphasis my 5th child is here cos of St Johns wort affecting the pill!!! Cazxxxx

This is a great thread - if it can lift that sense of isolation for one person, even temporarily, then it is obviously more than worthwhile. I like many other people it would appear, can empathise with much of what has been said here. I would like to add a note of caution to the comment by Ruby Tuesday - anti-depressants can be a great help but they have to be the right anti-depressants. The first course I was prescribed had a horrendous effect upon me - I was already profoundlly depressed but they pushed me so far down I thought I would never be able to get back again and brought suicidal tendancies with them! So the correct medication can be a valuable tool - but, please, if you feel you are not responding to medication or if you feel you are getting worse get straight back to the doctors. I have had a very mixed experience of 'professionsals' during my periods of depression, I had a doctor who told me that the urges to harm my children would pass - and was completely unable to accept that I didnt have urges to harm my own children - infact they were the only reason I wasnt harming myself. I also had a doctor who told me he was lucky, his wife hadnt wanted children so they had got a dog instead - and this to a woman who was in his surgery because she was currently going through a miscarriage! I have also encountered those who think I am sad or fed up, that a walk would cure me, or getting up and about etc. - but and I cannot stress this enough, I have also met wonderful, empathic, warm individuals who listened and helped me back from the abyss. Take care, all of you, Helen x x x

Thankyou Helen, may I pm you? Cazxxx

Yes, any time you want to. Sorry for delay actually added some new people to my tree today so only just seen your message. Helen x x x

An amazing thread Len, glad it’s appeared again. Depression makes me nervous, probably because it’s so “invisible”! My mum has suffered from depression twice. The first time was many years ago and it wasn’t called depression – the world (including me!) was told that mum was off work with a “bad back”. Depression was a no-no! It took months, but she recovered. A few years back, after my dad and her brother died within a year of each other, mum was diagnosed with depression again. This time it was different. Instead of recovering in a few months, she took an overdose of anti-depressants. Luckily, she didn’t have enough to do any serious damage, but the damage to her mind was done and was irreparable. Mum slid seamlessly from depression to dementia. We have no idea where her depression ends and dementia begins. Could it have been prevented? I doubt it. Mum was always a worrier, always a pessimist, always so emotionally controlled – looking back, I don’t recall ever seeing her really let her hair down, I don’t recall ever seeing her double up with laughter, weep with fury or sadness or have any outward show of real emotion. Too late now. Bev x

So true your words, What a thoughtful thread Len. Debs

Hi Len, thanks for addressing this issue, it seems the perfect opportunity for people to address their own feelings in a safe environment. Regards, Bev. x

What a Fantastic thread.....I have no doubt this thread will have helped more people ...than a visit to their GP...It is so informative and offers an insight to a condition that is usually hid under the carpet. thank you for bringing it to the fore, I am sure many people will not be feeling so alone now. And to all you who suffer from depression..my thoughts are with you. Sally xx

I have been suffering from depression since January this year (when it was diagnosed) but obviously have been suffering far longer than that.I appreciate the quotes from Carl Rogers (I studied basic councelling when I was doing an HNC) they have given me something to think about. Thank you for a brilliant thread. Viv

.......... , . - . - , _ , ....... ......... ) ` - . .> ' `( ....... ........ / . . . .`\ . . \ ........ ........ |. . . . . |. . .| ........ ......... \ . . . ./ . ./ ......... ........... `=(\ /.=` ......... ............. `-;`.-' ............ ............... `)| ... , ........ ................ || _.-'| ........ ............. , _|| \_, / ........ ....... , ..... \|| .' ............. ....... |\ |\ , . ||/ ............. .... , ..\` | /|., |Y\, ............ ..... '-...'-._..\||/ ............. ......... >_.-`Y| .............. .............. , _|| ............... ................ \|| ........... ................. || .......... ................. || ........... ................. |/ ..........For Len and his wise words....and for someone I love very much who was recently pulled down with depression xxxxxx Thanks Len

Sometimes it recurs in those who receive psychiatric care and counselling. Sometimes it is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. It is a tragic illness that can affect not just the sufferer. Joy