Genealogy Chat

Thank you so much for your time travelling efforts Lyla! I think the Janet was Isabella's sister but I wonder who the two men were. Lodgers? Sounds a bit odd to me? When I get back from holiday I might pop over to the FRC and look at the film there - whatchathink?

Thanks again Kate. I joined and went exploring but they don't seem to have the number of the lodging house , 5, where Isabella and possibly John was or the number of the organ building business , 21 where the mystery Munro probably was. I have an old map of London and I think I got the area right. It is Swan St between Mansell rd and Minories. Oh well !

Jennie - you can look at the 1851 London on Stepping Stones if you can work out where to look! You have to buy credits and each credit will give you a great chunk of pages. You choose which 'film' number to view and there is a list showing you which 'film' contains which piece number and range of folio numbers within that piece. Also it has street indexes for different areas though sometimes it is hard to work out which street index you need. Anyway, maybe you can find Swan Street on there. www.stepping-stones (.) c o (.) uk remove dots and spaces. Kate.

nudge

Hi Kate - No I haven't looked it up yet -I have to go to FRC to do that as I don't have the discs. I see that Isabella Munro was a lodging house keeper so perhaps JT left his wife and lodged with his sister? Are you able to look up 1851? It would be great if you could! Perhaps Lyla could do it if you're online today?

Unfortunately the 1841 census doesn't have a column for marital status, so it is unlikely to say whether somebody was a widow. Have you looked up Swan Street for 1851 already? Kate.

that's a good point you raise. He was called a traveller in 1825 so perhaps he was away in 41 and 51. I should search other census areas for him. SOmeone earlier on this thread said he would normally have named a child after himself and there was JT Munro born in 1811 and another in 1837. The children I know about were born in 1824 and 1826. I'm going to look at those other two as well. I think JT , Sarah's husband was born between 1775 and 1800. Sarah herself was 1795. Sensible girl - she stayed in Clerkenwell and filled in the census properly so I know where she was born. ST George's in the East.

Could John Thomas have been away elsewhere in the country, when the census was taken? I realise that Sarah is shown as a widow in 1851 but was she?? Different time frame I know, but we have someone who married in Cork, Ireland in 1909. He was an organ restorer, (working on the organ at St Finbars Cathedral) and the marriage entry shows his Folkestone address. I don't know how they were contracted to work away from home but I wonder if the firms documents, (if they survive) would enlighten you as to where J.T. might be away working.... or they may indeed record his death.

I got Benjamin Dobson's will last night. He died in 1824 and left everything to his wife Caroline. I think his son carried on the business perhaps. JT does not call himself an organ builder in 1824 only in 1846 but the firm was called Dobson and Munro in 1811!!!!!!! This is so frustrating! Was he involved in another firm later on? Was a traveller a salesman and could he have been a salesman for Dobson and Munro? If so, how did he make the leap to organ builder? Maybe his father was the organ builder who was the partner of Dobson in 1811 and JT followed him much later.

Lyla - you're a darling and have saved me an enorous amount of trouble. I was going to go up to FRC today and look up the 1841 census using the Berry ST address on the boy's birth records. So it seems old JT had left before 1841 even. On the boy's birth record JT is called a Traveller. On their marraige certificates he is an organ builder. Does the record say that Sarah was a widow? This is where my confusion comes in. If Sarah was a widow in 1841 then who is the JT in Swan St mentioned in Isabella's will of 1855? I know the organ building business was in Swan St. I know JT was an organ builder and the witness to the will, J. Bunting was also an organ builder. Caroline Dobson was the wife or daughter of Benjamin Dobson the organ builder- partner of Munro in Dobson and Munro organ builders. She became a famous organ player.

Thanks Zoe - you've made me think of looking for that will - he may have mentioned his business partner - thank you!

oooh - they made a lovely organ didnt they http://www.morrismuseum.org/static/collections/guinness/highlights15.html

just for reference: the 1811 Pigots London and commerial Dierctory has a company called Dobson and Munro, Organ Builders on Swan St, Minoreis Benjamin Dobson, organ builder of Swan Street Minories Will was proved 19 January 1824 neither of which will help you prove if he was still alive in 1851 but might prove useful should you have to search outside the box for clues to when he died Zoe

Thanks very much Kate. I received the email beautifully transcribed and legible - what there was of it! I will order the cert as I'm very curious but I agree it is a bit of a swizz. I will nudge this thread up when I get the cert. It will be when I get back from holiday - two weeks sailing in Italy :)

Jennie - I've sent you an email, but for anybody who's interested, the will just leaves everything to John Thomas Munro of the same address as Isabella and appoints him as executor, but makes no mention of what relation he was to her! And the bit granting him probate doesn't say what relation he was either. So not much help, really. I've suggested in my email that Jennifer could get Isabella's death certificate and see if the informant was John Thomas, and if it says what relation he was on there, but it seems unfair that she will have to spend another £7 to get that after £3.50 for a will one paragraph long! Kate.

in the body of the will it says April 1855. (I'm learning here!) That is still after Sarah's delaration of widowhood. Perhaps he ran off to live with his sister?

Are you sure the will was written in 1856? The date will be somewhere in the body of the will - usually at the start or towards the end where you get all the bit about the witnesses being in her presence and in the presence of each other etc etc and the testator signs.... Feb 1856 is when the will was proved. Merry

Thanks Kate - if you send me email at [email protected] I'll send it over to you oops - they don't let you send email addresses - I'll send a PM

Yes - it was. Sir Hugh was the last uncontested owner of the title Baronet of Fowlis that my weird family seems to think they deserve. The IGI record from St Botolph's doesn't mention that the Hugh Munro mentioned was Sir Munro but then his marriage to Jane Law in St Marylebone in 1804 doesn't mention his title either. He was quite a horny old goat and not very honest so this could have been an earlier marriage that he wanted to keep quiet. WHo knows? It may be a Hugh who has nothing to do with FOwlis whatsover..,GRRRRRRRRR

Yes, that bit you quoted would be it, it will say 'proved' at the beginning. I could transcribe the rest of that bit for you if you send it to me? Let me know if you want to and I'll send you my email address. Kate.