Genealogy Chat

I'm going round in circles trying to think this through and am quite confused so I'm sure this won't be explained very well. But if anyone feels like having a go I'd be grateful. I can't find Ellen Harriet Carr born 1878 Islington on 1901 census. She married John Adams in Dec 1905 but was already known as Mrs Adams when their daughter was born in March 1905 (at least as far as the certificate goes). I'm also waiting for a birth cert as I suspect they had another child in Autumn 1902. However she is definitely not with John on the 1901 as I've found him with his brother. Neither is she with her parents Charles and Ann. Strange thing is that Ellen and John married in Hackney despite living in Holloway (same address on birth certs of child born before wedding and child born after). Thanks to Bob I now have the family living at the address in Hackney in 1901 they married at in 1905. The family is Brereton and no obvious relation. But Mrs Ellen Brereton would appear to have been born Eleanor Agass (m Jun qtr 1873 George Albert Brereton). There are only three Ellen Harriet Carrs on FreeBMD - my Ellen b1878 and m 1905 and one who m 1893 Islington Edward William Aggus (or someone Kingaby) and because of the Hackney address connection I'm starting to wonder if Ellen may have married at 15. But I can't find an Edward Aggus or similar married to an Ellen. Obviously I need to order the Carr/Aggus marriage cert when funds allow but has anyone got any ideas/help?

This is making my brain hurt! I'll have a think about it for a while... Do Mrs. Ellen Brereton's age and birthplace in 1901 match Ellen Harriet Carr's? Kate.

Thanks Kate - my head hurts too:) Will pop back later and see if anyon has any bright suggestions that are escaping me:) Sorry Kate I didn't explain that well - Ellen Brereton definitely isn't my Ellen and was actually married before my Ellen was born. It was the fact that she was living at the same address in 1901 that my Ellen married from in 1905 and that her maiden name was Agass - the same name (Aggus) that *an* Ellen Harriet Carr may have married in 1893 that is making me leap to conclusions. I'm wondering if I ought to delete this and repost when I can make more sense lol

Never mind, I've had a look and I can see the age doesn't match. My next suggestion would be to see if you can find an Edward Aggus married to the 'other' name on the list of 4, or a somebody Kingaby married to an Ellen, or to the 'other name', on the 1901. Kate.

Thanks Kate - should have done that and it will narrow possibilites down. Will look now. Thanks:)

The 'somebody Kingaby' is Frederick Charles Kingaby, and the 'other' bride is Fanny Catherine Houghton, and on the 1901 there is a Frederick C. Kingaby in Stoke Newington with wife Fanny C. or could be Fanny E., and their oldest child is 6, so I would say they must be the other 2 off the marriage list, leaving Edward William Aggus marrying Ellen Harriett Carr. Kate.

Thanks - I've just done the same:)

Despite having looked loads before I've now found Ellen H Aggers on the 1901 born c1862 Old Ford so clearly not mine and I'm now just stuck looking for an Ellen Harriet Carr on the 1901:)

Can't find her at the moment, but unfortunately I know from experience that people who were born in Islington or Hackney often have a different birthplace for every census, such as Dalston, Holloway, Kingsland, etc. I have to go and do some housework now, anyway, so I can't search any longer. Hope somebody finds her! Kate.

Don't they just:) Thanks very much for yr help Kate - at least there's some stuff eliminated now. I'll delete this later and ask for help a bit more clearly:)

Don't know if this is any good, different birthyear and christian names switched round but couldn't find anything else Alice Carr abt 1873 Bromley by Bow, London, England Daughter Bromley London Ethel Carr abt 1885 Bromley by Bow, London, England Daughter Bromley London George Carr abt 1843 Cheshire, England Head Bromley London ***** Harriet E Carr abt 1871 Bromley by Bow, London, England Daughter Bromley London Rose Carr abt 1883 Bromley by Bow, London, England Daughter Bromley London Sarah A Carr abt 1849 Walmsgate, Yorkshire, England Wife Bromley London Gloria x

David, you know I always have time and inclination for you :)) I haven't been at this game long enough to be able to sort out puzzles like that for myself, let alone anyone else, BUT I'm around all evening so if you want an Ancestry or 1837 lookup I can do those for you no problem. Mandy :)

Thanks for trying Gloria - It's not her as her parents were Charles and Ann but thanks:) Thanks Mandy:)) I'm thinking she must be missing or living under an alias. I've tried every variation of her name I can think of her but she just aint there:) Maybe the birth cert I'm waiting for will help.

1901 census Harriet Carr abt 1879 Parish Not Known, London, England Servant Tooting Graveney London

Hi Jim Thanks very much for looking but I've found Harriet before and she appears with another Carr (Sarah). It looks likely they're sisters and appear together in Ewell in 1891. Mine's still in Islington then so I don't think it's her. I appreciate you trying:)

At last, I do have my head round this!!!!! I notice there are quite a few Aggus children born in Islington after the 1893 marriage. One stands out - Ada Ellen..... Obviously, she and any of the others may be nothing to do with Edward Aggus and his possibly-15-year-old-bride.....but....pity I can't find her (Ada) or any of the other children reg in Islington in the 1901 census???!! I don't suppose you have the 1905 marriage cert? I realise she has married using her maiden name (possibly because the Aggus thing is a red herring - though it seems a big herring, doesn't it?), but I did wonder if it also says spinster too? Merry

Hey!!!!!!! Have not even looked at this yet.......but Aggers and Carr together!!!!! And an Ellen A tentative Hooray?? Charles E Aggers abt 1896 Islington, London, England Son Islington London Ellen H Aggers abt 1862 Old Ford, London, England Wife Islington London Henry G C Aggers abt 1888 Old Ford, London, England Son Islington London Jessie Wand Aggers abt 1892 South Newington, London, England Daughter Islington London John N Aggers abt 1894 South Newington, London, England Son Islington London Lily A Aggers abt 1898 Islington, London, England Daughter Islington London Sidney R Aggers abt 1900 Islington, London, England Son Islington London William E Aggers abt 1859 London City Head Islington London Arthur E Carr abt 1885 London City Visitor Islington London Albert Tracey abt 1882 Hoxton, London, England Visitor Islington London Merry

Hi Merry Well done for getting my rambling lol. I found Ada Aggus (Ada Ellen Aggers abt 1897 Kingsland, London, England) and she wasn't even a daughter of the other Ellen:)) I think the Aggus thing must be a red herring because the father of the Ellen who married the Aggus came from Berkshire so not even a relation there! I have got the marriage cert and she is down as a spinster. When I get the birth cert I'm waiting for I will at least know if she had another Adams child before she married John and where she was in 1902.

Sorry Merry - I mentioned her earlier:) Which sort of discounted my whole Aggus thing:(

Withdrawing my tentative Hooray, but there surely is some sort of connection with this lot? Do you know who Arthur E Carr is? Merry