Genealogy Chat

I ve been looking back at all my stuff again - amazing bits you miss. Anyway, I want to try to find a Mary Ann Groves born c1849 - says Rotherhithe - married my GGF William Dixon in 1868 (Ive got the certificate). But, whilst we wait, what do you reckon a tablecloth penciller did for a living (her father, Thomas)

Ancestry Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh feel better now now for your question do you think this would be what we call stencils perhaps she was drawing pictures for people to embroider? sandie

Hi, its a guy! Yes, I wondered if it was something like that, or possibly you know they made those old, oh gawd, cant remember - baize is it? tablecloths - I remember my nan having one, sort of weaved in lines which you could have a good pick at. I wonder if REALLY posh ones had a pattern all over them. Would be expensive.

Right, its working guys.

Penciller? Of course I'm only a bloke, so please forgive me if I'm wide of the mark, but isn't a pencil pleat something applied to old fashioned tablecloths and curtains? Looks like a row of pencils side by side.

Surely she wasn't 9 when she got married?? LOL I have pencil pleats in my lounge curtains and I think they were also popular in Victorian clothing/parasols etc....but tablecloths?? Merry

Twit, arent I, meant 1868 marriage. Too much half price wine from Tesco.

LOL, just found it.....right, going to have a little look! Merry

GGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!! Is there a bye-law in Rotherhithe that you cannot have kids unless you are named William or George??? Still looking........................... Merry

What you looking for Merry? Her dad is named Thomas on the cert.

No, you can be George, William, Thomas or Harry actually.

Or John.

Oh, well that's all right then....it's just that every Mary in Rotherhithe seems to have a dad called anything BUT Thomas!!! No tablecloths to be seen yet, either! Merry

Dixon, William 1868 September Bermondsey (1837-69) London Surrey 1d 91 GROVES, Mary Ann 1868 September Bermondsey (1837-69) London Surrey 1d 91 Here we go, just copied it from my FTM Name: Dixon, William Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1868 District: Bermondsey (1837-69) County: London Surrey Volume: 1d 1868 Aug 03 William DIXON, 19, Bachelor, Lighterman, Bermondsey,. Father: William DIXON, Lighterman. Mary Ann GROVES, Full age, Spinster, Bermondsey. Father: Thomas GROVES, Table Cover Penciller (?) Witnesses: H.W.PHILLIPS & John W Whatdyer reckon? 1861? Emma Groves abt 1840 Westminster, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch St Leonard Middlesex John Groves abt 1847 Dalston, Middlesex, England Son Shoreditch St Leonard Middlesex Mary Ann Groves abt 1842 Southwark, Surrey, England Daughter Shoreditch St Leonard Middlesex Thomas Groves abt 1807 Ingetestone, Essex, England Head Shoreditch St Leonard Middlesex This Thomas is shown as Printer, lithographier. Which I guess could fit in with the table cloth penciller?? Making patterns? I wonder if that should have read stenciller. What do you think? Old Mary ann must have knocked a few years off her age if it is her.

Have you all dumped me?

Sorry, just had to make hubby a sandwich! Yes, looks good 1861! Merry

And I just went over to General to moan about the £844 mobile phone bill 19 year old son got today. I think another glass of half price Tescos is called for Merry, or shall we make it a coffee cup full. Anyway can you see the lying about her age Mary Ann in 1851, I cant. In theory should be in Shoreditch.

Probably way off the mark but I wonder if they drew designs onto table cloths for others to then embroider. My parents have a number of old tablecloths which were embroidered and I seem to remember that some of them were quite elaborate.

£844?? It's going to take a hell of a lot of half price wine to make that up.......you had better get drinking! Can't see that pesky Thomas in 1851 ........ Merry

Got them, mistranscribed as Graves: Catherine E Graves abt 1836 St Margaret, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch Middlesex Emma Graves abt 1839 Finningsute West Smith, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch Middlesex George Graves abt 1843 St Margaret, Middlesex, England Son Shoreditch Middlesex John Graves abt 1847 Hucking, Middlesex, England Son Shoreditch Middlesex Mary Ann Graves abt 1805 St James, Middlesex, England Wife Shoreditch Middlesex Mary Ann Graves abt 1841 St George in the East, Surrey, England Daughter Shoreditch Middlesex Sarah Graves abt 1786 Romford, Essex, England Grandmother, Grandma Shoreditch Middlesex Thomas Graves abt 1804 Jigetstone, Essex, England Head Shoreditch Middlesex Thomas still shown as printer, lithographier, all the daughters and wife are crocheters - I think this must be the guy, I bet that should have read tablecloth stenciler. He probably printed the patterns on the tablecloths and sounds like the girls are all wearing out their fingers crocheting them! Oh, quite a good result then.