Genealogy Chat

hi could someone tell me where i would find the 1841 census for dunham massey,cheshire....i`m researching my g.g.grandfather john hartley barker.....later on in life he dropped the barker,and just became john hartley....i have him in 1861/1871 census`s as john hartley barker,but can`t find an 1841 census...he was born in 1835,so would be 6 on 1841 census with his parents and any siblings....any advice???...regards...allan

All the censuses state he was born in Salford, so he is more likely to be there in 1841. As an aside - have you found him in 1851? I couldn't find him though, well, not for definte anyways. It's a shame he was born before 1837. Do you have his marriage cert? Who is his father and what's his occupation? To answer your question, it comes under Bowden.

thanks tracy...someone on gru has stated that although it states salford,this was the registry office that covered dunham massey....i find this hard to believe because salford is in lancs and dunham massey in cheshire....i haven`t got john in 1851 census.......regards....allan

Do you have his marriage cert, for fathers name?

hi sue....not got any info yet...i went on monday to liverpool registry office for my g.g.grandmother and g.g.grandfathers marriage certificate...received it yesterday by post,so didn`t know until yesterday that my g.g.g.grandfather was john hartley barker b 1835 his daughter martha ann hartley barker was born in 1861 dunham massey...john married martha collins in 1858...dunham massey.....martha collins parents i`ve found already....abraham and martha...b 1796 and 1801 respectively....martha collins b 1833 dunham massey....so i`m presuming john hartley barker to be from dunham massey,but he could in fact be from anywhere.....they all dropped the name barker and became known as hartley....bit stuck...regards...allan

As we are all struggling to find him, it would be best if you can get his marriage cert and find his fathers name. That would at least give a starting point. Do you know the reference?

thanks girls....all i have found out is that john hartley barker married martha collins at manchester cathedral on 26th december 1858....1841 census says collins family , abraham/martha and martha junior in dunham massey.....1871 and 1881 census both state john hartley barker was born in salford......1871 regent road....1881....oldfield st address and yet in 1881 it gives martha hartley barker as born dunham massey....i only received the marriage cert yesterday,so john hartley barker/martha collins/abraham collins and martha collins senior are all new members of my family tree...regards...allan

So did Martha die and John H remarry John Hartley Barker Nancy Frances Year of Registration: 1867 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec DISTRICT: Manchester (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 8d Page: 535

hi sue....evidently not....i`m told by someone on gru that nancy was a very common name for martha,hence nancy being on the later census lists....unless i`m missing a link somewhere, i believe nancy to actually be martha...what do you think???....regards...allan.....added....just realised...thats obviously another marriage for john hartley barker...now its getting confusing...but making sense....on one census john is 3 years younger than his wife....10 years later he is 7 yrs younger than his wife......i`ll have to start again and write this down line by line...thanks sue....regards...allan

I've never heard of Nancy being a diminutive for Martha. All the ones I have are either Nancy as a given name, or a 'pet' name for Ann. Reg

death Name: Martha Barker Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Year of Registration: 1867 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Age at Death: 34 DISTRICT: Salford County: Lancashire Volume: 8d Page: 76 If this is the right one, he didn't hang about.

In 1861 its Martha born Dunham, but the Nancy in subsequent censuses is born in Salford and the birth years are different.

This might be the family in 1841 HO 107/585/7 - Salford Folio 12, Page 12 Frederick Street BARKER Martha - 35 - shopkeeper - not born in county John - 6 Richard - 4

thanks sue/reg....well that confirms martha ann hartleys death and his 2nd marriage to nancy frances within 12 weeks by the dates given....still can`t find john hartley in salford or dunham massey in 1841 census....frustrating....regards...allan

hi sue....have you got any other details on barker ,frederick st ,salford 1841??...no mention of hartley??...regards...allan

There is this baptism on IGI, extracted record, two other submitted records give mother's maiden name as Martha Inman: JOHN INMAN BARKER Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: 07 SEP 1834 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JOHN BARKER Family Mother: MARTHA

Thats all it says for the 1841, no mention of Hartley there. I did find the following two people on the same page for marriage but have no idea if they are married to each other. Name: Martha Barker Year of Registration: 1849 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Manchester (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 20 Page: 459 Name: Jeremiah Hartley Year of Registration: 1849 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Manchester (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 20 Page: 459

In 1841 there is a Jeremiah Hartley in Salford in Crookell Street, right near Regent Road HO 107/586/9 Folio 42 Page 22 Tis looking good.

thanks sue/pam.....both seem feasable....looks like i`m going to purchase another marriage certificate......on monday i went to liverpool registry office(i live in liverpool) for a £7 certificate...i took my wife with me....and spent £100....i`ll go on my own monday....lol....regards...allan

Can't find any signs of them in 1851 and beyond, maybe they emigrated.