Genealogy Chat

Allan Yes I think a few certs are the only way to start getting a few proper answers. Good luck and let us know the outcome. Sue

thanks very much for your input sue...i really appreciate it...the jeremiah stepfather avenue seems to be very feasable,but i`ll need the marriage cert to confirm johns original parents...regards...allan

Allan Have absolutely no idea if its even the same Martha. I just picked up on it because of Hartley/Barker. Maybe he was the childrens real father and married later.. In 1841 Jeremiah is listed with an Ann who could be his wife or sister. If its his wife there are a couple of Ann Hartley deaths in Salford between 1841 and 51. Or Jeremiah was just the stepfather John took his name. There are a few scenarios which could be the case. Just so annoying not to find any of them in 1851, not even the young Richard, unless he had died beforehand.

hi sue...little confused...are you suggesting that jeremiah is johns stepfather..hence the surname john HARTLEY-BARKER...that would solve a lot of questions...if this is the case,then john was born to martha barker in 1835...martha then married jeremiah hartley in 1849, when john was 14....is this right???....regards...allan

Can't find any signs of them in 1851 and beyond, maybe they emigrated.

thanks sue/pam.....both seem feasable....looks like i`m going to purchase another marriage certificate......on monday i went to liverpool registry office(i live in liverpool) for a £7 certificate...i took my wife with me....and spent £100....i`ll go on my own monday....lol....regards...allan

In 1841 there is a Jeremiah Hartley in Salford in Crookell Street, right near Regent Road HO 107/586/9 Folio 42 Page 22 Tis looking good.

Thats all it says for the 1841, no mention of Hartley there. I did find the following two people on the same page for marriage but have no idea if they are married to each other. Name: Martha Barker Year of Registration: 1849 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Manchester (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 20 Page: 459 Name: Jeremiah Hartley Year of Registration: 1849 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Manchester (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 20 Page: 459

There is this baptism on IGI, extracted record, two other submitted records give mother's maiden name as Martha Inman: JOHN INMAN BARKER Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: 07 SEP 1834 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JOHN BARKER Family Mother: MARTHA

hi sue....have you got any other details on barker ,frederick st ,salford 1841??...no mention of hartley??...regards...allan

thanks sue/reg....well that confirms martha ann hartleys death and his 2nd marriage to nancy frances within 12 weeks by the dates given....still can`t find john hartley in salford or dunham massey in 1841 census....frustrating....regards...allan

This might be the family in 1841 HO 107/585/7 - Salford Folio 12, Page 12 Frederick Street BARKER Martha - 35 - shopkeeper - not born in county John - 6 Richard - 4

In 1861 its Martha born Dunham, but the Nancy in subsequent censuses is born in Salford and the birth years are different.

death Name: Martha Barker Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Year of Registration: 1867 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Age at Death: 34 DISTRICT: Salford County: Lancashire Volume: 8d Page: 76 If this is the right one, he didn't hang about.

I've never heard of Nancy being a diminutive for Martha. All the ones I have are either Nancy as a given name, or a 'pet' name for Ann. Reg

hi sue....evidently not....i`m told by someone on gru that nancy was a very common name for martha,hence nancy being on the later census lists....unless i`m missing a link somewhere, i believe nancy to actually be martha...what do you think???....regards...allan.....added....just realised...thats obviously another marriage for john hartley barker...now its getting confusing...but making sense....on one census john is 3 years younger than his wife....10 years later he is 7 yrs younger than his wife......i`ll have to start again and write this down line by line...thanks sue....regards...allan

So did Martha die and John H remarry John Hartley Barker Nancy Frances Year of Registration: 1867 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec DISTRICT: Manchester (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 8d Page: 535

thanks girls....all i have found out is that john hartley barker married martha collins at manchester cathedral on 26th december 1858....1841 census says collins family , abraham/martha and martha junior in dunham massey.....1871 and 1881 census both state john hartley barker was born in salford......1871 regent road....1881....oldfield st address and yet in 1881 it gives martha hartley barker as born dunham massey....i only received the marriage cert yesterday,so john hartley barker/martha collins/abraham collins and martha collins senior are all new members of my family tree...regards...allan

As we are all struggling to find him, it would be best if you can get his marriage cert and find his fathers name. That would at least give a starting point. Do you know the reference?

hi sue....not got any info yet...i went on monday to liverpool registry office for my g.g.grandmother and g.g.grandfathers marriage certificate...received it yesterday by post,so didn`t know until yesterday that my g.g.g.grandfather was john hartley barker b 1835 his daughter martha ann hartley barker was born in 1861 dunham massey...john married martha collins in 1858...dunham massey.....martha collins parents i`ve found already....abraham and martha...b 1796 and 1801 respectively....martha collins b 1833 dunham massey....so i`m presuming john hartley barker to be from dunham massey,but he could in fact be from anywhere.....they all dropped the name barker and became known as hartley....bit stuck...regards...allan