Genealogy Chat

Tracing My grandfather's family (Pudner) has proved quite difficult, but I've really hit a stumbling block now and was hoping people maybe able to give me some advice! Frederick Pudner is on the 1841 census aged 4 living at Manaton(devon), but he is the only Pudner in this area on that census. I can't find him on some of the censuses, but on later ones he does put down Ashcombe as his place of birth. In 1866 he marries Grace Spencer from Kennford, Devon, but even though they are down as married, on quite a few of the censuses they are not living together. In fact, I found out just yesterday that they are both still alive in 1901, in fact - he didn't die until Jun 1921 - down as Newton Abbot in the index, actually listed as Manaton. Now, I can find Pudner's in Ashcombe, but not sure if I can count them as his family as he is down as born in Manaton. ??? Why is he on his own in 1841? The parishes aren't right next to eachother or anything.... On his and Grace's marriage certificate the father is down as John Pudner, born c.1910. Any ideas on next steps gratefully received! Laura (ps - sorry if this has been a bit of a ramble, I've spent all day yesterday and today on here and my brain is a bit frazzled!)

Looking at the 1841 Census do you think Frederick was living with this grandparents and their children who are listed before him on the form?

I never thought of that! Yeah, it could be. If a female harvey is the one that married John Pudner. hmmm. How would I go about finding that out? Would I have to look at parish registers etc? You see, so far all my research has been done online/through making connections with people on this site and others... Laura

Well, I've been able to find him in 1891 Still not living with Grace, although down as married (as is she on her census). He's in Manaton, 2 doors down to the harvey family from 1841(although not same people exactly!) lodging with the Snell family - Lucy & Thomas and their family. He's down as a gen lab and born in Ashcombe. Still no luck with anything else though! Been trying to chase up the Harvey lead but no joy so far! Laura x

nudge

He's still with a Harvey family in Manaton in 1861: Name: Fredrick Ridner Age: 24 Estimated birth year: abt 1837 Relation: Servant Gender: Male Where born: Ashcombe, Devon, England Civil parish: Manaton Ecclesiastical parish: Exeter and Totnes County/Island: Devon Country: England Registration district: Newton Abbot Sub-registration district: Moreton Hampstead ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 13 Household Members: Name Age John H Bennett 3 Thirza Bennett 32 Henry Harvey 25 John Harvey 65 Mary Harvey 65 Fredrick Ridner 24 Rose

1851 he's listed as a nephew. This might help: Name: Frederick Redner Age: 13 Estimated birth year: abt 1838 Relation: Nephew Gender: Male Civil parish: Tormoham Town: Torquay County/Island: Devon Country: England Registration district: Newton Abbot Sub-registration district: Torquay ED, institution, or vessel: 5d Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 35 Household Members: Name Age Hanah Brows 5 Henry George Brows 7 Mo Johesa Brows 30 John Brows 50 John Brows 12 Seliza Brows 16 Theodore Brows 13 Thomas Brows 8 William Brows 9 William Dasper 38 Frederick Redner 13 Rose

Rose - you are a star! Honestly, the frustration this side of the family has been causing me! Doesn't help I'm an impatient so and so. Thank you so much.... it's got to be him I think, despite the mistranscription/mistake with his name. I wonder why he never seems to be with his family, either his parents or later, his wife and children! Thanks again, let's see if that helps! Laura

Hi Laura, The surname is Brown and not Brows. In 1841 the Browns have a Henry Pudner and Susan Harvey living with them. Rose

Think John's wife Patience was a Pudner. These children are listed on IGI: 1. AMILIA MARGARET BROWN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 22 OCT 1835 Brixham, Devon, England 2. SELINA PATIENCE PODNER BROWN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 20 MAR 1834 Brixham, Devon, England Rose

Thanks Rose especially for the 'brown' bit - i was just looking through the censuses and couldn't find the family at all! will have another look now... Laura (this is good, it's keeping me away from Big Brother!!!!!) PS - in1901 Tormoham I have Henry Pudner living with Aurilia Margret White b1838 Brixham, which looking at the info you've posted above, I reckon that;'s Amelia

Right, well I have plenty of info on he browns/harveys now, I just need to find the connecting link for certain! I think Henry must be the brother of Patience, which is how he's connected to the Browns etc. Then, If Frederick is Henry and Jane's son that would explain him being the nephew, BUT on the marriage cert I have Frederick's dad down as John - could this be another brother? And why doesn't he live with them for the whole of his life?! hmmmm, time to go to bed methinks! Laura

nudged for any other ideas/tips/comments ??? Laura x

Any more ideas? Anyone? Pretty please?

What ideas do you want??? What is his occupation that may be the reason he is not with the wife on the census every time?

Oh, and on his seamans record his place of birth is down as Dawlish - I know I can find lots of Pudners in Dawlish on the census, it's linking them in again that is the trouble. Laura

I need to find some way of linking Frederick to the other Pudner's I have.... I still don't know for sure who his parents are - on the Marriage cert it seems to be John Pudner, but the Pudner;s we've found as above are Harry and Jane. I have found Pudners in the area at the time, and have managed to trace the other surnames forward, but I still haven't got that little nugget that connects Frederick to the others. On the census with his wife Grace and the children, she is down as the wife of a naval seaman. On the marriage certificate he is down as a seaman but on the censuses later when he is living apart from his wife and children he is down as an ag/gen lab. I'm wondering whether his father could be John Harry Pudner as Frederick and Grace's eldest son is called John Harry. This would explain the John on the marriage cert, but the Harry on the census? I have the seaman record for Frederick, it looks like he joined up age 10 on 23rd august 1845 as a blacksmith? is that a normal age? seems quite young, though I know children weren't really 'children' in those days.... He served on many ships, including the Indus, Osprey and Britannia, and was invalided out in 1883? (it's quite difficult to read) I'm sorry to keep on, I just feel inspired knowing I found out all the above in a weekend, but am impatient and would like to tie it together to carry on! Laura x

Well I cant see any problem with someone called John Harry calling himself Harry on a census (Henry come to that). A 10 year old blacksmith - I dont think thats right. For one thing he would have to have served an apprenticeship, so he would have been hammering metal from about 3! Are you sure you have the right record? Take it no sign of a birth reg for him. Have you got his death cert?

There are two possibilities for his parents so far I think John Pudner b1813 Ashcombe married Jane b1807 Torr, Devon or Henry Pudner b1815 Kingskerswell who married Jane b1820 Wellford, Glos. This would tie in with Henry on the 1841 census, but Jane (if she is Fred's mother) would have only been about 15 when he was born?

No death cert as yet, but have found it on the index - do you recommend getting it? What more could I find out from it? the seaman record I have definitely says trade is blacksmith, date and period of C,S engagement 23 august 1845, age 10 years. (5ft6 at 10 yrs old? or maybe that was a measurement at a later stage, but he signed up at 10? then did an apprenticeship?) I'm sorry to be a pain, I think I must have been really luck with the other branches of my tree as although I've only got back to late 1700s on them all, they've all been relatively easy to find info out except these Pudners! Yep- sorry- meant Henry! Laura