Genealogy Chat

i am absolutely reaching out to every one and anybody who could possibly help me.
my father passed away 2 weeks ago to which i am devastated and i would like to get as much info as possible on his life to turn into a sort of book for his funeral. to make it a celebration etc.
my dads name was john Holroyd 12/10/1932
his dad was also called john Holroyd 03/02/1902
his granddad was called albert Holroyd born 1870 he married Margaret jane Clarke 1891
alberts dad joseph Holroyd think married ellen Campbell
then after this i am totally lost i do hope i have put this in a readable and understandable order many many thanks

Marriage: 2 Dec 1864 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
Joseph Holroyd - 20, Soldier, Bachelor, Fulwood Barracks
Ellen Campbell - (X), 19, Rover, Spinster, Bedford St.
Groom's Father: late Benjamin Holroyd, Sailor
Bride's Father: late Hugh Campbell, Wheelwright
Witness: John Crook; Mary Mercer, (X)
Married by Banns by: Thos. Johnson Curate
Register: Marriages 1864 - 1865, Page 71, Entry 141
Source: LDS Film 93998

John Holroyd on the 1939 Register

1939 Register Transcription

Holroyd Household (3 People) 21 Walnut Crescent , Wakefield C.B., Yorkshire (West Riding), England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
John Holroyd 03 Feb 1902 Male Colliery Ripper Underground Hw Married 169 1
Lena Holroyd 21 Mar 1912 Female Charwoman Married 169 2

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Byron Street, Preston, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Holroyd Head - Male 25 1846 - Lancashire, England
Transcription
Ellen Holroyd Wife - Female 25 1846 - Ireland
Transcription
Benjamin Holroyd Son - Male 5 1866 - Lancashire, England
Transcription
Albert Holroyd Son - Male 1 1870 - Lancashire, England
Transcription
Catherine Campbell Mother-In-Law - Female 76 1795 - Ireland

I'm sorry to hear of your Dad's death, donna.

Here's HIS dad's marriage and death records:

John Holroyd
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: John Holroyd
Death Age: 81
Birth Date: 3 Feb 1902
Registration Date: Dec 1983
Registration district: Wakefield
Inferred County: West Yorkshire
Volume: 5
Page: 1560



John Holroyd
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: John Holroyd
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1931
Registration district: Wakefield
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Spouse: Colena Martin
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 171

EDIT:
Have just noticed that you already have this on your tree on Ancestry. But I'll leave it for helpers' reference.

Albert Holroyd
in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Albert Holroyd
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1878
Marriage Date: 21 Nov 1897
Marriage Place: St Joseph Chapel Wigan
Age: 36
Document Year: 1914
Residence Place: 137 Bolton Road, West Houghton
Regimental Number: 16175
Regiment Name: King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 4
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Albert Holroyd Self (Head)
Margaret Jane Clarke Spouse
John Holroyd Child
Lucy Holroyd Child
Nellie Holroyd Child
Albert Holroyd Child


Albert was a collier.
He had married Margaret Jane Clarke (spinster) on 21/11/1897 in St Joseph's Chapel, Wigan.
All the children were born at West Houghton.
He was a private throughout his army career, discharged on 09/03/1915, no longer physically fit for war service.


As you know (per your tree) , he and Margaret were in Crompton in 1901.
I can't see them in 1911 - so far.

Albert Holroyd
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Albert Holroyd
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Maggie J Holroyd
Birth Place: Preston, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Crompton
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Crompton
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3830
Folio: 106
Page Number: 34
Household schedule number: 225
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert Holroyd 31
Maggie J Holroyd 29
Albert Holroyd 5
Maggie Holroyd 4
William Holroyd 1
James Clark 17 - boarder
Herbert Travis 20 - boarder
Ben Holroyd 35 - brother
Mary J Holroyd 21 - boarder

Is this the family in the 1911 census? :-

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
8 Dams Head Fold, Westhoughton, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation

Albert Holroyd Head Married Male 41 1870 Lancs Preston Dataller
Margaret Jane Holroyd Wife Married Female 39 1872 Lancs Manchester -
Albert Holroyd Son Single Male 16 1895 Lancs Royton Haulage Rope Ham
Margaret Holroyd Daughter - Female 14 1897 Lancs Royton Tenter Cotton Mill
William Holroyd Son - Male 11 1900 Lancs Shaw -
John Holroyd Son - Male 9 1902 Lancs Westhoughton -
Susan Holroyd Daughter - Female 4 1907 Lancs Westhoughton

Kath. x

A possibility that this is Joseph's father Benjamin in the 1841 census:-

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Smith Street, Rochdale, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place

Benjamin Holroyd Male 49 1792 (occupation Boatman) Not born in Lancashire.
Mary Holroyd Female 50 1791 Lancashire, England

Kath. x

Thank you all for above info I tonhave some info but to be honest my tree is a bit all over the place like me. I cannot thank you all for your research. I will try and do more on Alberta wife today xx

The 1901 and 1911 censuses say Margaret was born 1872 in Manchester.

I'm being picky about your tree now! -

In your tree you say she was born 1869 in Preston, attaching 1901 and 1911 as proof. However, I'm sorry to say you've misread the place of birth in 1901, and have attached a completely different Margaret's 1911 census record .

You say her parents were Joseph Clarke and Catherine Durnin, showing a baptism in Tallanstown, Louth , Ireland in 1872. No, I don't believe that's the correct baptism.


EDIT:
ah, I see you have two trees, one with the above details, and the other with two different sets of info re Margaret -
once as Maggie J, showing unknown parents, and born 1872 Manchester.

and again, as Margaret Jane, showing father James Clarke and unknown mother.



Although Albert's army record says they married in 1897 in Wigan, I can't find a record of their marriage.

The transcription of his army record also says he was born 1878, not 1870.
The image says he was 36 years 279 days on 23 November 1914.
by my reckoning, that makes his birthday 17th February 1878.

Just found the marriage - 1891, not 1897 as stated in army record!
So his age on the army record is also suspect - 1870 is probably correct.

Marriages Dec 1891 (>99%)
Clarke Margaret Jane Wigan 8c 183
Holroyd Albert Wigan 8c 183

Do you have the marriage cert? Is that where her father's name James comes from?

Re Joseph (1846) and Ellen Campbell -

safc posted the 1871 census for them.

Ancestry's transcription says Joseph was born in Rochdale, Lancs.
Ellen and her mother Catherine were both born Ireland.


Joseph's father Benjamin ?? Although Mary would have been 55 in 1846, so maybe not. (Or 53 in 1844, if you go by Joseph's age at marriage.)

EDIT:
Just noticed - already posted by Kath.


Benjamin Holroyd
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Benjamin Holroyd
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1792
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Rochdale
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: Smith Street
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Castleton within the Borough
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 550
Book: 17
Folio: 13
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Holroyd 49 - boatsman
Mary Holroyd 50


Just before them on the image, but in Pump Street, there's another Holroyd family - - related ??

William, 20, boatsman
Mary, 20
Sally, 10 months

I am going to do a big shake up of my tree starting from john Holroyd born 1902 I am so sorry x

albert Holroyd army records threw me because of his age I have alberts marragie certificate to Margaret jane Clarke dated 1891 and it states both were 21yrs old making it 1870 when they were both born. lived at 21 Victoria street wigan.
alberts father called joseph Holroyd and margarets dad called james clark

Does it say what the fathers' occupations were?

And who were the witnesses, please?

Father's occupation Carter
That's Alberts dad

Margaret dad worked in a cotton mill

Witnesses
John McCormick
Catherine lynch

A possibility for Margaret and her family ??? (Taking her YOB as on 1901 and 1911 censuses. The fact that the marriage cert says she was 21 maybe just means she was at least 21 - ie - legally able to marry without parents' approval)

Maggie Clarke
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Maggie Clarke
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Relationship: Servant
Birth Year: 1872
Birth Place: Manchest, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Ardwick
Residence Place: Manchester, Ardwick, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district: Ardwick
ED, Institution or Vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3166
Folio: 92
Household Members:
Name Age
John Howarth 73
Elizabeth Howarth 56
Sarah Ann Beldington 12
Maggie Clarke 19



Margaret Jane Clark
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Margaret Jane Clark
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Mother: Susan Clark
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Royton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 46 Water St
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Oldham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4094
Folio: 59
Page Number: 42
Household Members:
Name Age
Susan Clark 31 - married, born Ireland
Ann Clark 11 - Manchester
Margaret Jane Clark 9
Mary Ann Clark 2 Heyside, Royton


Susan Clark
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Susan Clark
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Clark
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 72
Piece: 3996
Folio: 9
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
James Clark 23 - shipper and grinder at cotton factory - born Wales
Susan Clark 22
Ann Clark 2 - Manchester
Richard Colligan 17 - brother-in-law, Ireland
Eliza Cahill 34 - visitor


James & Susan in 1891 :-


James Clarke
in the 1891 England Census
Name: James Clarke
Gender: Male
Age: 43
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1848
Spouse: Susan Clarke
Child: Mary Ann Clarke
James Clarke
Ann Dufty
Birth Place: Carnarvon, Wales
Civil Parish: Crompton
Residence Place: Crompton, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district: Crompton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3324
Folio: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
James Clarke 43 - general labourer, out of work
Susan Clarke 43 - card room hand (cotton), Longford, Ireland
Mary Ann Clarke 12 - Heyside
James Clarke 7 - Heyside
Ann Dufty 21 - married daughter, card room hand, Manchester
Margaret Dufty 2 - grand-daughter, Shaw


Probably the birth of that Margaret Jane:

CLARKE, MARGARET JANE mms CARREGAN
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 203

Brother James:
CLARKE, JAMES mms CALLAGHAN
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 755

sister Ann:
CLARK, ANN mms CALLIGAN
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 674

Sister Mary Ann:

CLARKE, MARY ANN mms CALLAGHAN
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 767

Susan's death ??

Deaths Jun 1895 (>99%)
Clarke Susan 43 Oldham 8d 523

Yes, that's the right family -


Margaret's brother James Clarke (see 1891 census above) is lodging with her and Albert in 1901, already posted.

Birthplace given as Royton in 1901.

James & Susan's marriage:

Marriages Mar 1867 (>99%)
CALLIGAN Susan Oldham 8d 883
Clarke James Oldham 8d 883