Genealogy Chat

Thanks Ann,

As far as I know this grandad only fought in WW1 so im going to get some subs and look up Ancestry. Shame though as the info I got on the other grandad was VERY interesting.

Regards
Cassie

Yes, if a man served in both wars his entire record might be with MOD

Sorry Ann for my confusing reply - I was looking at the wrong page - ha ha!

If ancestry holds NOK details then that should help a lot in identifying the right chap.

My other grandad served in both wars and I got his records from the MOD. When I ordered (£30) his records I got the WW1 stuff then I queried something that was missing and a whole lot of WW2 stuff then arrived which was a real surprise as we hadnt realised he fought in both wars - he lied both times about his age both times! On that occasion I got the pre 1921 stuff but I did have to produce a death cert.

Anyway I'll think Ill have a go and buy some subs and see what it brings. Thanks ever so much for your help

TTFn Cassie ;-)

Thanks peeps

im stuck really as I dont have his army number and the name William Jeffries is quite common. I was wondering if Ancestry has a DOB search on the army records? Also please could you tell me what you are able to see on Ancestry or Forces War Records? Im happy to pay subs if I can see more than a few lines (that is if theyve survived at all).

Some years ago I did get my other grandafthers army records from the MOD and they were full photo copies of actual documents, descriptions, NOk details, details of where he'd been and when and the trouble he got into (several times) for going AWOL and getting drunk!!! I had his army number that time though - just not sure if having the DOB is enough??

many thanks
cassie :-D

I posted this earlier on in the thread

"You can't order his records unless he served after 1921. If his service ended before then they would be on the Ancestry website, if they have survived."

Army records rarely give date of birth but should give year. Bear in mind that he might have lied about his age so you need to look a few years either side, and that, combined with NOK info will be enough to identify him, if he's there.

hello there

I now have grandads correct date of birth 17/08/1898 Manchester.

He was in the Manchester Regiment and was shot in the foot. I dont have his Army number though.

Can anyone tell me is the correct date of birth and NOK details enough to check to see if his army records are on Ancestry? Im aware there area a couple by the same name.

If Im right IF his army records have survived then they will be recorded on Ancestry?? I have the forms filled out ready to request from the MOD (along with a death cert which they ask for) but dont want to do that if there is no record to be had as theres no refund if not.

Thanks for any advice
Cassie :-)

Interesting.

Thanks for the links too Ill have a look now

Regards
Cassie :-)

You can check Army Records for WW1 and 2 here

http://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/records.asp?SE=go&KW=british_army_military_records&cmp=B&AdGp=N2&gclid=CNP5ptbJuLICFY5TfAodKnAATg

:-)

You can't order his records unless he served after 1921. If his service ended before then they would be on the Ancestry website, if they have survived.

Hi Jonesey

Thanks for the info.
Ive just been told he fought at the Battle of the Somme and was shot through the foot apparently the family joke was always he stopped a bullet by putting his foot in the air!

His son is very ill but believes he is the Wm who died in 1978 which means he was born 17/08/1898 so I think Im going to try to order his army records using that dob. They say use dob AND/OR service number. I may leave off the service number and add his next of kin details (parents) which may help?

I do know my other grandad also b1898 lied about his age saying he was older and joined up in WW1 then lied again in the WW2 saying he was younger.I managed to get his army records for both wars but I did have his Service number so it was easier.

Thanks for all the info!
Cassie

The Age limit for the British army was 19 as the start of WW1. Initially only men between the ages of 19 and 38, at least 5 foot 6 inches tall with chest measurements of at least 34 inches were accepted. Many rejected in the first wave of enlistments were later accepted when standards were revised.

Technically your William would not legally have been able to enlist until 1915 but many young men (Boys) lied about their age in order to enlist. It is thought that as many of 250,000 ‘Boy Soldiers’ were recruited and fought in World War One. On the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916, 500 ‘Boy Soldiers’ were killed and 2,000 wounded. By the time the battle had ended, 18,000 ‘Boy Soldiers’ had been killed or wounded.

Thanks Jonesey for the info.
We now think he WAS born 1898 (due to checking his death date)so would that mean he could possibly be too young to have joined in 1915 as I was given another Wm Jeffries yesturday

Name: William Jeffries
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Age at enlistment: 26
Document Year: 1915
Regimental Number: 23327
Regiment Name: Manchester Regiment
Number of images: 3

Crickey I didnt realise the name was so popular! ha ha!

Regards
Cassie :-S

Cas,

Tameside Archives have the Manchester City Battalions book which lists everyone who enlisted in the service or "Pals" Battalions after 1915.

I would imagine that if William Jeffries was born c1898 then he would have probably enlisted after 1915 if so he should be amongst those listed in the book.

Amongst the Medal index cards there are 2 William Jeffries who served with the Manchester Regiment:

Name: William Jeffries
Regiment or Corps: Manchester Regiment, 12/Manchester Regiment
Regimental Number: 4833, 4833

Name: William E Jeffries
Regiment or Corps: Manchester Regiment
Regimental Number: 30389

Good luck.

Wow thanks everyone for all this info.

Im going to order a death certificate for a William Ive found in 1978 which I believe is the right one. I got the DOB from that record.

Im hoping to speak to Williams son today but unfortunately he is very very ill and it is for him that Im doing this as it is something hes always wanted to do but never got round to it. Hopefully he will be able to tell me the date or year of death of his father then I'll know if I have the right dob.

I now have the forms ready to fill in to the MOD to request copy of any Army Service Record but need the dob and they request a death certificate as well.

fingers crossed Ill have an answer today if his son is up to it. After this Ill be passing on the rest of the info too so thanks to you all!

TTFN
Cassie :-D

1901 England Census
County:Lancashire
Parish:NORTH MANCHESTER
Street:8 RAVENGLASS STREET
Ecclesiastical District:NEWTON HEATH ST MARK
Municipal Ward:MILES PLATTING
Parliamentary Borough:NORTH EAST MANCHESTER
Registration District:PRESTWICH
Sub District:NEWTON
Enumeration District:25
Archive Reference:RG13 Piece Number:3760 Folio:171 Page:32

WM JEFFRIES 1876 25 NK HEAD M HAWKER OF VEGETABLES
AMELIA JEFFRIES 1878 23 Manchester, Lancashire WIFE M
WM JEFFRIES 1898 3 Manchester, Lancashire SON
DANIEL JEFFRIES 1901 0 Manchester, Lancashire SON


Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
Jeffries William Manchester 8d 491

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1896
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JEFFRIES William HUGHES Amelia Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended Manchester MCR_RM/136/121


1911 England Census
Civil parish: North Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 18 George St Miles Platting
Registration district: Prestwich
Registration District Number: 467
Sub-registration district: Newton Heath
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Piece: 24255 [Sched # 106]

Amelia Jeffries 31 Manchester, Lancashire Head M [Seperated crossed out] Cotton Mule Piecer
William Jeffries 12 Manchester, Lancashire Son School
Daniel Jeffries 10 Manchester, Lancashire Son School
Harold Jeffries 7 Manchester, Lancashire Son
Ellena Jeffries 3 Manchester, Lancashire Daughter
Mary Ellen Clancy 22 Manchester, Lancashire Boarder S Paper Presser
[Marr 14y; 5 live births; 4 still living]


Births Mar 1898 (>99%)
Jeffries William Salford 8d 156

Births Sep 1898 (>99%)
Jeffries William Manchester 8d 235

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1898
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
JEFFRIES William Salford Regent Road Salford RR/234/16
JEFFRIES William Ancoats Manchester ANC/245/1



17/8/1898 matches Manchester, but how sure of that date are you?

Marriages Mar 1921 (>99%)
JEFFRIES William Thornley Manchester 8d 408

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1921
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JEFFRIES William THORNLEY Elizabeth Manchester, St. Philip Manchester 93/10/287


name: William Jeffries
event: Marriage
event date: 26 Mar 1921
event place: St Philip, Manchester, Lancashire, England
marital status: Single
father: William Jeffries
spouse: Elizabeth Thornley
spouse's marital status: Single
spouse's father: James Thornley
film number: 2357637
digital folder number: 004497845
image number: 00843

Citing this Record
"England, Lancashire, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Parish Registers, 1603-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FM1Y-XFP : accessed 14 Sep 2012), William Jeffries and Elizabeth Thornley, 1921.

=========================================

So this must be the Salford one

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
County:Lancashire
Parish:SALFORD
Street:59 LORD NELSON STREET
Ecclesiastical District:SALFORD CHRISTCHURCH
Municipal Ward:ST PAUL
Parliamentary Borough:WEST SALFORD
Registration District:SALFORD
Sub District:REGENT ROAD
Enumeration District:19
Archive Reference:RG13 Piece Number:3734 Folio:43 Page:4

WILLIAM JEFFRIES 1871 30 Manchester, Lancashire HEAD M ENGINEERS LABOURER
ELIZABETH A JEFFRIES 1873 28 Manchester, Lancashire WIFE M
ARTHUR JEFFRIES 1895 6 Salford, Lancashire SON
WILLIAM JEFFRIES 1898 3 Salford, Lancashire SON
CHARLES JEFFRIES 1870 31 Manchester, Lancashire BOARDER S PAINTER (HOUSE)


1911 England Census
Civil parish: Pendleton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 27 Herd Street Of High Street Pendleton
Registration district: Salford
Registration District Number: 465
Sub-registration district: Regent Road [4]
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Piece: 24080 [Sched # 72]

William Jeffries 40 Manchester, Lancashire HEAD M ENGINEERS LABOURER
Elizabeth Ann Jeffries 38 Manchester, Lancashire WIFE M
Wiliam Jeffries 13 Salford, Lancashire SON SCHOOL
Arthur Jeffries 11 Salford, Lancashire SON SCHOOL
James Jeffries 9 Salford, Lancashire SON SCHOOL
[Marr 14y; 4 live births; 3 still living]

Marriages Dec 1896 (>99%)
Jeffries William Salford 8d 109

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1896
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JEFFRIES William MASSEY Elizabeth A Salford St Bartholomew Salford C43/9/327

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 26 Dec 1896 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancs.
William Jeffries - 25 Labourer Bachelor of 8 Trafford Rd.
Elizabeth Ann Massey - 24 Braid Tenter Spinster of 4 Eldon Street
Groom's Father: William Jeffries, Carrier
Bride's Father: William Massey, Carter
Witness: C. Jeffries; Mary Jones
Married by Banns by: G. W. Petherick
Register: Marriages 1894 - 1897, Page 164, Entry 327
Source: LDS Film 1786464

Thanks Ann

Would you believe there were 2 William Jeffries born close by around the same time and now I see Both had fathers called William! ha ha!

One was born Salford, one Manchester but I think Im going with the Manchester one. Maybe if I find the deaths it may help. The marriage youve given above is definatley the right one.

Looks like the above info re the army record may be right.

Thanks everyone very much appreciated

Cassie ;-)

from familysearch marriages William's father was also a William

married 26 March 1921 at St Phillips Manchester

Hi Brummiejan

Thanks for all the info!!. I think I will order a marriage certificate so at least I know if Im following the right one. Its typical that there are 2 Wm Jeffries 1898 and 1899 both born Manchester. If I can ascertain his death it may have a dob on it so that may be an option too.

I did google Manchester Pals but unfortunatley their blog site isnt working and wont let me Register. Im hoping this is a temporary blip as Im sure they may hold the key.

Once again thanks for all your help.

best wishes
cassie

:-D :-D :-D

Also possible, same family as above:

1901 England Census

Name: Wm Jeffries
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Wm Jeffries
Mother's Name: Amelia Jeffries
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Newton Heath St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire

Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Newton

Wm Jeffries 25
Amelia Jeffries 23
Wm Jeffries 3
Daniel Jeffries 5 Months