Genealogy Chat

At the beginning of the Xmas holiday I set myself a challenge. - We have a family legend that needed proving one way or another and I was determined to get to the bottom of it.

The story goes that there is a connection to Florence Nightingale through the Bonham-Carter family. I have found some strong clues but would be very grateful for any help in the final piece of the jigsaw !

I have traced the line back to John Carter who was a manufacturer of invalid equipment in London. He was born in Portsea Island ( Portsmouth) in 1838, the son of John carter and Mary Ann Brown.
The Bonham-Carter name came about as the Bonhams and Carters had a brewery business and when there was no heir , a John Carter took on the Bonham name out of respect. But the mystery is; where does my John carter fit in ? was he a son / cousin/ no connection? . I just cant seem to find the evidence and my holiday is nearly over ! Any help would be very much appreciated from the experts :-)

This quotation:

'"Henry Bonham Carter and Nightingale wrote each other--they were first cousins"

From this site:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~cwfn/short/whr.html

And this:

"Florence Nightingale was a relative of the Bonham Carter family with the connection going back to John Bonham Carter I."

From this site:

http://www.buriton.org.uk/bhb/infosheet05.htm

Florence Nightingale's mother was a daughter of William Smith of Parndon Hall, Essex. She had a sister who married John Bonham Carter.

Hi Margee , thanks very helpful , it looks like there is a definite connection between the Bonham-Carters and Florence Nightingale

I now need to establish how my John Carter fits into the Carter / Bonham-Carter family in Portsmouth. By 1851 they were living in Hanover Square London, John Senior ( 60 years old) was listed as being a" retailer of Ale - Master", which is interesting as the Bonham-Carters owned a brewery business that supplied the Navy.

If you haven't seen it this may help and gives the connection to Florence Nightingale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonham_Carter_family

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=041-bonham&cid=-1#-1

Thanks thats very interesting I hadn't seen the wikipedia entry. John Carter was my great, great grandfather and the older generation in the family mentioned that there was a connection to the Bonham-Carter family . Sadly they have passed away now , but it would be fantastic to finally prove the link.

Do you think it would need a visit to the Hampshire records office to see the documents ?

http://nowportsmouth.co.uk/galleries-and-articles-01/gallery-johncarter-01.html

And why did he change his name to Bonham-Carter? Simple, really - it was all about money, the money that was left to him by his great uncle, Thomas Bonham, who had married Ann Pike, sister of Susannah (John Iv's grandmother) and inherited the other half of the massive Pike fortune.

list of names in florence nightinggales tree
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~thelamp/List%20of%20People%20for%20The%20NIGHTINGALE%20FAMILY%20TREE.htm#CARTER

Thanks for the links Dizzi, it looks like the Carters were quite influential. It seems too much of a co-incidence that my John Carter was connected to the brewing industry. The problem I have is that if he was 60 in 1851 , he would have been born approx 1791 which doesnt seem to match any of the documented Carter / Bonham-Carters , or am i missing something obvious?

ON A TREE ON ANCESTRY


FATHER
Sir John Carter (-1804)
MOTHER
Dorothy Cuthbert

John Carter

Birth 22 Sep 1788 in Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Death 1838

Spouse Joanne Marie Smith (-)

CHILDREN
John Bonham Carter (1817-1884)
Alfred Bonham Carter (1825-1910)
Henry Bonham Carter (1827-1921

time line
1788 22 Sep Birth Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
1788 30 Nov Christening High St. Presb. Church, Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
1816 25 Dec Age: 28 Marriage to Joanne Marie Smith 1816
Age: 28 Description M.P. for Portsmouth 1816 and 1838 &
1827 MarAge: 38 Name change Changed his name from Carter to Bonham Carter
after inheriting the estate of a cousin, Thomas Bonham of Petersfield.

Hmm the plot thickens !

My John Carter also had a brother called Alfred . The two of them formed a company ( Carters) which was only recently taken over.
The dates for my Carters are : John , born 1838 and Alfred born 1843 so this is too late to be the Bonham-Carters , cousins perhaps?

1851
Members: Name Age
John Carter 60
Mary A Carter 44
Ellen Carter 19
George Carter 14
John Carter 12
Alfred Carter 8
Elizabeth Payne 19

Thanks for all your help, Yes Thats my great great grandfather John aged 12 in 1851 with his brother Alfred. I obtained a birth certificate for this John, which gives the fathers name as John Carter and mother Mary Ann Brown.
John Snr seems quite a bit older than his wife Mary could this be a clue do you think?

COULD BE SECOND MARRIAGE WITH OTHER
CHILDREN
FROM FIRST

England Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: John Carter
bride's name: Mary Ann Brown
marriage date: 13 Sep 1828
marriage place: St. Mary's Church, Portsea, Hampshire, England
groom's marital status: Single
bride's marital status: Single

indexing project (batch) number: M01634-1

Ah yes possibly. I guess this would need a look at parish records

Sorry Ozibird I didnt see your post, Thats very interesting , i didnt have that information