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OZIBIRD
I HAVE TO GO NOW

LEAVE MY JUMBLES TO YOU
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Can't find Alfred, but may not be transcribed.


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Mary Ann Carter
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 13 Sep 1829
baptism/christening place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
father's name: John Carter
mother's name: Mary Ann Carter
indexing project (batch) number: I04144-6


name: Ellen Eliz Carter
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 12 Aug 1831
baptism/christening place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
father's name: John Carter
mother's name: Mary Ann Carter
indexing project (batch) number: I04144-6


name: John Carter
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 23 May 1834
baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS, PORTSMOUTH, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father's name: John Carter
mother's name: Mary Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C06251-4


name: Henry George Carter
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 29 Jan 1836
baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS,PORTSMOUTH,HAMPSHIRE,ENGLAND
father's name: John Carter
mother's name: Mary Anne
indexing project (batch) number: C06251-4


????
name: Matilda Carter
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 01 Sep 1844
baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS, PORTSMOUTH, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father's name: John Carter
mother's name: Mary
indexing project (batch) number: C06251-4

???
Deaths Mar 1850
CARTER Ann Matilda Portsea 7 103


name: Emma Carter
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 11 Jul 1847
baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS, PORTSMOUTH, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father's name: John Carter
mother's name: Mary Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C06251-4


Deaths Jun 1850
CARTER Emma Portsea I 7 125

The Birth certificate for John gives the birth as :
Born at 20 min. before 1 a.m. Sandwich Street John , Father John Carter. Mother: Mary Ann Carter , Formerly Brown Fathers Occupation: Gentleman Informant: John Carter Registered 4th Sept 1838

Which is a few years different ??

It certainly is. The John I found could possibly be another family. There's plenty of them!

Or else an older John died in infancy.

Also I notice Alfred was born in Surrey on 1861, although recorded as Portsmouth in 1851.
???
Births Mar 1843
Carter Alfred Henry Lambeth 4 262

Ozi

This is interesting about Sandwich St, although it doesn't seem the place for a "gentleman".

http://www.history.inportsmouth.co.uk/places/new-buildings.htm

Very interesting It looks like quite a rough area, part of the docks and as you say not somewhere you would expect to find a "gentleman" living. Perhaps he was involved in the brewery .
Or in the timber industry...

" Wooden ships, temporarily anchored in 'Porchester Lake' or nearby 'Fountain Lake', were broken up and their timbers sold by firms such as Clarke and Carter."

Although with his trade listed as retailer of Ale - Master on the London 1851 census I would think he was more likely brewing.

Also in the 1881 census he is recorded as being born in Landport Hants which is correct for this area.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=20336

" it comprises numerous dense and dingy streets, occupied by the working classes; and it presents, as a whole, an appearance far from interesting to strangers; yet it contains, between Mile-End and Kingston-Cross, and along the main thoroughfare on the London road, many houses of a superior class. ... "
Do you think the fact that the exact time the birth happened being recorded is significant ? perhaps it was an unexpected birth when visiting ?

The 1861 census shows the family living in London with two members working as gov. clerks admiralty . Also Alfred Hy Carter with a birth county as Surrey.
The Bonham-Carters had the contract to sell beer to the Navy, perhaps there is an admiralty connection with this ?

BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS,
MAYBE A TREE FOR FLORENCE WOULD HELP
THEN DO YIURS AND SOMETIMES THE COMPARISMENT
JUMPS OUT OTHER WISE WE COULD KEEP GOING ROUND IN CIRCLES

It seems like there are 2 John Carters both with wives called Mary Ann, both with sons called Alfred and John , and then there is the John Carter who changed his name to Bonham-Carter who is related to Florence Nightingale .
Its all a bit confusing to say the least !

Hi John,

looks like you've got a right old tangled web to unpick.

Just sticking my two penneth in, I know that in later years the time was added to a birth certificate when twins were born..... this then enabled others to confirm which twin was born first. However I'm really unsure if that would have been added in 1838, I'm sure someone else will confirm or unconfirm my theory if wrong.

Best of luck, Dee x

Hi Folks,

Just a bit of information. I think one of the Bonham-Carter sons married Violet Asquith daughter of Herbert Henry Asquith of Prime Minister fame. The actress Helena Bonham-Carter is a gt.grand-daughter.

"The 44-year-old star of the Merchant Ivory films ‘Howard’s End’ and ‘A Room With A View’ is the first cousin three times removed of the Lady with the Lamp.

Florence’s mother Fanny was the sister of Joanna Smith, who married John Bonham Carter, Helena’s great-great grandfather.

Last week marked the centenary of the nurse’s death as The Florence Nightingale Museum in London unveiled drawings of her by Hilary Bonham Carter, John’s eldest daughter.

Florence spent her childhood at Embley Park, a mansion in Hampshire, where the Bonham Carter family had been prominent figures since the 17th century.

Maria

Wow thats very interesting, even more incentive to unravel if & how my Carter fits into the Carter / Bonham-Carter clan of Portsea island !! It would be amazing if the puzzle could be solved.


Would parish registers help ? are they available online or is a visit required?

I am new to this information side of genes and only really like to add snippets that I know as fact.

The internet gives information on all the family connections so say start with Florence Nightingale and Wiki. comes up with information. Each bit of information leads to another and so on. But the main thing about going down this line is that you learn so much and can then eliminate what is not relevant to your family.

My connection is a long way away from the Bonham-Carter line although a connection is there, but my own family has taken me years to trace and that is the only way I could do it and I am stilling researching now into the Baltic States and Russia.

It takes time Martin, but very very rewarding; reams of paper and folders, corrections and errors, etc. then whoopee it comes right!!

Keep trying!

Regards Maria (down under so cannot help with the parish registers, but the rest of the genes helpers are on the ball there),

If you're lucky, sometimes there are odd snippets in parish registers that help you, but usually they are brief with the barest of facts. It depends on the person who wrote them.

As I found the marriage on familysearch.org that means you should be able to view a copy of the original records at a Family History Centre near you. It costs very little, and the volunteers are very helpful. They possibly may have to send for the records you need. Go to the website to find your nearest centre.

Ozi

It seems very difficult to establish which Carter is which when there are a number living in the same area , any tips on getting the right line?

I think we need to go back to the introduction and establish exactly what it is you are seeking.

We have established there is a connecting with the Nightingales and the Bonham-Carter families. You are trying to establish which John Carter is connected to you? This will be difficult as only you can establish definitely which of the Carters is connected.

I have Googled thus: Florence Nightingale and Bonham-Carter connection, and come up with "Florence Nightingale Family Connections. This leads to Bonham-Carter; Lushington; Nicholson and Smith. Now you can go through and see how close any of these members connect with your John Carter from the information you hold, if any. It will be a process of elimination I'm afraid.

See how that goes; plenty of information and there is a Descendant List worth checking! Plenty of 'clicking on' to do here.

Good luck.

Maria