Genealogy Chat

i have ancestors james buggs (1795) and rachel hawkins(1795) d.o.m. 1821 in kent but cant seem to link james up to his parents.james was born in meopham kent.census shows they lived in ash kent when son james (1832) was born.other children born to them were rachael emily/
tabitha/amelia/ i thought that perhaps james buggs 1764
was his father but cant seem to link up to other trees that
ive seen.would be very grateful if anyone has any info as i
have searched everywhere.thanks. marinaki :S

Is this his christening on the IGI:-

JAMES BUGGS
Male

Event(s)
Birth:
Christening:
04 JAN 1795 Meopham, Kent, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents
Father: JAMES BUGGS
Mother: MARY

Kath. x

Possible siblings of James (same batch number):-

for: British Isles
Father: James Buggs, Mother: Mary
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: C135004


1. HENRY BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 18 OCT 1789 Meopham, Kent, England
2. MARIA BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 04 MAY 1788 Meopham, Kent, England
3. HARRIOT BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 03 JUN 1802 Meopham, Kent, England
4. WILLIAM BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 SEP 1791 Meopham, Kent, England
5. WILLIAM BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 AUG 1800 Meopham, Kent, England
6. THOMAS BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 JUN 1793 Meopham, Kent, England
7. THOMAS BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 NOV 1796 Meopham, Kent, England
8. JAMES BUGGS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 JAN 1795 Meopham, Kent, England

Kath. x

hi kathleen,found his christening on all the forms i looked at
but there are so many james buggs from that area its hard
to know if i have the right one.when i get in touch with other
tree owners they dont have the same line going back to
my dads line.its confusing as there is four james buggs.
james 1871/james/1832/james1795/ and if the next one is also james no wonder i keep going round in circles.
htanks for your e-mail. regards marina :S

For the record.


James and Rachel's marriage, from the Parish Record

from tthe new Mormon beta.familysearch site

www.familyseach.org/


record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: James Buggs
bride's name: Rachel Hawkins
marriage date: 08 Aug 1821
marriage place: Higham Near Gravesend, Kent, England
indexing project (batch) number: M03661-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1469426




sylvia

children:-

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

name: Amelia Buggs
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 21 Jul 1822
baptism/christening place: ASH, KENT, ENGLAND
father's name: James Buggs
mother's name: Rachael
indexing project (batch) number: C13090-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1469269


name: Rachael Emily Buggs
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 25 Jan 1824
baptism/christening place: ASH, KENT, ENGLAND
father's name: James Buggs
mother's name: Rachael
indexing project (batch) number: C13090-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1469269


name: Tabitha Buggs
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 04 Jun 1826
baptism/christening place: ASH, KENT, ENGLAND
father's name: James Buggs
mother's name: Rachel
indexing project (batch) number: C13090-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1469269


name: James Buggs
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 04 Dec 1832
baptism/christening place: ASH, KENT, ENGLAND
father's name: James Buggs
mother's name: Rachael
indexing project (batch) number: C13090-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1469269





sylvia

This is a James Buggs baptism on www.familysearch.org/

It is the same one that Kathleen found on the IGI, and is the only one showing for Kent.


record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

name: James Buggs
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 04 Jan 1795
baptism/christening place: MEOPHAM,KENT,ENGLAND
father's name: James Buggs
mother's name: Mary
indexing project (batch) number: C13500-4
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 992509





sylvia

Hi Marina and welcome to the boards!

Have you tried searching Medway City Ark? It's a fantastic site and Meopham parish records are very well recorded on it.

How do I know? Well......my Goodwins came from Meopham and the name Buggs keeps appearing in the records...they would have known each other!

If you have any difficulties with the MCA, come back to me because I absolutely adore searching through it!


Regards, Cx
:D

Marina has asked me to look at MCA and I have asked her to watch this thread for replies!


Marina.......there is a marriage on 29th January, 1788 at Meopham between James Buggs and Mary Weller. Witnesses......William Buggs and Elizabeth Weller. Seems likely.

JAMES BUGGS Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 30 SEP 1764 Meopham, Kent, England

Parents:
Father: RICHD. BUGGS Family
Mother: MILDRED





RICHARD BUGGS Pedigree
Male Family


Marriages:
Spouse: MILDRED HAYSELL Family
Marriage: 22 JUN 1761 Meopham, Kent, England


This is from the IGI.

In the MCA registers, it states as witnesses....John Haysell and James Halley.

Hello again.

Marina, it doesn't look as though you have a tree on here with your Buggs family in it!!

I've just had a look, and there are oodles of members on this site with Buggs from Meopham in their trees.

You really need to get this family onto your tree and then look for connections on this site. Several have James ..............etc.


Cx.

I have received a pm from Marina


Marina .............. it really is much better to reply on this thread so that everyone can see the information.

To do that, scroll all the way down to the bottom of the thead, there is a box headed Add Your Reply.

Type your message in that, then click Submit


This is the message that Marina sent, because I think it will be an aid to all helpers! I have split the message into sections to try to make it clearer, as easier to understand.



hi sylvia, many thanks for all the info yes thats the right james and rachel.and the children all tie in.

i am a beginner in this ancestry search and to using a pc.

how do i go about finding his parents and to make sure i have the right ones.

i think its james buggs and mary.

he was born 1764, and they wed in 1888.

she was born in 1766.

which other trees also show ........... but they dont have my james and rachel in them which is confusing me.

maybe i have the wrong mary (weller)

no one else seems to have the same family line as mine which makes it harder to find a match.

my g/father was james buggs 1871
partner was emma elizabeth spain

his father was also james buggs 1832 and he was wed to louisa smith/jarrad

his father was james buggs 1795 wed to rachel hawkins.

which is where i am stuck but thankyou for your time and info much appriecated





sylvia

hi cynthia.have put in my new names into my tree still no matches the only one that matches mine is my 2nd cousin david spain and he can only get as far as my matches.i am
begining to think hes the scarlet pimpernal.yes i have asked others if my tree lines up with theirs but no joy.i have e-mailed some others but dont hold out any hope.ive searched on geni,and loads of other sites ,but many thanks
for allyour help at least i know that rachel and james are right.thanks again. best regards marina :S

I know you have these, but I'm posting the various records in an attempt to get my head around the Buggs family


Is this your grandfather's baptism?

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

name: James Buggs
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 05 Mar 1871
baptism/christening place: ORPINGTON,KENT,ENGLAND
father's name: James Buggs
mother's name: Louisa
indexing project (batch) number: C00837-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 992515


and is this him with his parents in 1881?

1881 census

Name: James Buggs
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
[1832]
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa Buggs
Gender: Male
Where born: Wrotham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Brenchley
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address: Cottage No 2
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Game Keeper

Registration district: Tunbridge
Sub-registration district: Brenchley

James Buggs 42
Louisa Buggs 40 b.ca 1841, Hale, Devon
Rose Buggs 12 b.ca 1869, St Marys Cray, Kent
James Buggs 10 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Lilly Buggs 9 b.ca 1872, Wrotham, Kent
Thomas Buggs 7 b.ca 1874, Wrotham



and in 1871??

Name: James Buggs
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
[1832]
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lauria Buggs
Gender: Male
Where born: Ash, Kent, England
Civil parish: Sutton At Hone
Ecclesiastical parish: Canterbury
Town: Sutton At Hone
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Dartford

James Buggs 34 Game Keeper
Lauria Buggs 30 b.ca 1841, Hale, Devon <<<<<< name corrected to Louisa
Rotas Buggs 2 b.ca 1869, Sutton at Hone, Kent <<<<<< name corrected to Rose
James Buggs 2 Months b.ca 1871, Sutton at Hone



sylvia

??? marriage of James and Louisa


from freebmd.org.uk

Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%)

Buggs James Edmonton 3a 285
Jarrad Louisa Edmonton 3a 285




James b. ca 1832 in 1861, with his parents?

1861 Census

Name: James Buggs
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
[1832]
Relation: Son
Father's name: James Buggs
Mother's name: Rachel Buggs
Gender: Male
Where born: Ash, Kent, England

Civil parish: Ash
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Farningham

James Buggs 65 b.ca 1796, Meopham, Kent, Postmaster
Rachel Buggs 65 b.ca 1796, Portsmouth, Hampshire
James Buggs 28




and in 1841?

1841 Census

Name: James Buggs
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
[1832]
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England

Civil parish: Ash
Hundred: Axton, Dartford and Wilmington
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Farningham

James Buggs 47 b.ca 1794, Kent, Tailor
Rachel Buggs 45 b.ca 1796, not born in Kent
Emily Buggs 17 b.ca 1824, Kent
Tabithy Buggs 15 b.ca 1826, Kent
James Buggs 8

Address:- Ash Street




sylvia

Hi sylvia,yes all the info you sent me is spot on what is so
confusing is when they keep changing his date of birth
and birth place.so at least i know that that part of my tree
is correct .i've made the mistake of following other trees
and spent weeks checking it out only to find i'm not right
thanks for all your work much appriecated.i feel happier
now i know i am going in the right direction.
best regards and many thanks :-)

Marina


If by "by changing his date of birth" you mean the year of birth as shown on a census


Please do NOT BE CONCERNED about that.



The census asked for the actual age of a person in YEARS on the night of the census

The census is not taken on the same date every time ..................... so the age on the census depends on the date of the census vs the person's actual birth date


It might be that that one census the person's birth day was two days AFTER the census, while on the next census the birth day was one month BEFORE the census


so ages can be out 1-2 years from census to census.



THEN, the current-day transcriber had to transcribe the AGE into YEAR of birth

you will note that the census record shows "abt 1833" .... that means approximately 1832 ...... based on the best guess of the transcription from actual age to year.


You also have allow for the fact that people often did not know how old they were, or remember how old their children were .............. birth days were just not as important to them as now.



For this reason, you should ALWAYS search records on year of birth +/-2


In fact, I rarely search on less than year of birth +/- 5, just to cover all bases.


Also .................. enumerators on the 1841 census were supposed to round DOWN ages over 15 to the nearest 5. Not all did it, but most did


so someone shown as 20 on the census was actually somewhere between 20 and 24.



Secondly, birth places


sometimes people did not know where they were born.


They might have been born in one village, but then grew up from a baby in another village ............. so they assume they were born in the second village.

Mum might have gone home to her mother for the birth, and then back home to husband. Or the family might have for father's job.


Another common so-called error could be caused by the enumerator

Joe says "I was born at Jones Farm"

enumerator asks "where's that then?"

Joe "at Ashfield"

enumerator "where's that then?"

Joe "near Ipswich"

enumerator "Ah, I know where that is, so I'll put you down as born in Ipswich".



remember always that most of our ancestors were illiterate, and some of the enumerators might not be much more literate.



In short, never be too dogmatic when searching!


Don't always expect to get the same birth year, birth place, same spelling of names, etc.




sylvia

Marina

I found the original of the marriage cert Sylvia posted. It's on the site that Cynthia mentioned - Cityark.

Rachel Hawkins is a widow

Witnesses Jonathan and Jane ???? Morris

Unfortunately no parents listed.

Vera

Well spotted Vera.....I hadn't got round to Higham parish as I was still nose deep in Meopham!! :D


Definitely Jonahthan and Jane Morris....he could write his own name whilst she put her mark.

I just LOVE that site don't you?

Marina, stay with it and let us have your response. Keep checking back. :D


Cx

Cynthia

Brilliant site but not sure I'm finding the easiest way to search. Maybe I'm expecting too much. Had to go through lots of jpegs but never mind top marks to the volunteers and you find lots of interesting things as you go.

Glad you confirmed that Morris surname.

Marina

There is a Jonathan Morris born in Higham in 1810 in 1841 and subsequent census he is unmarried. It is possible Jane was his sister not wife. EDIT
just realised could not be the same Jonathan as he would have been aged 12 at the time of the marriage.

Vera