Genealogy Chat

Hiya,
wow that`s great, thankyou so much. Will keep you posted.

Hiya,
wow that`s great, thankyou so much. Will keep you posted.

Hi Jane

glad I could help (sorry just changed my board name)

just wondering, have you tried The Museum of Wigan Life at www.wlct.org/Culture/Heritage/heritage.htm

if you look at www.wlct.org/culture/heritage/lhistory.htm has info on some newspapers held/ archived by them

or www.wiganworld.co.uk you can search their site and there is a forum there which might be useful to you

also if you go to www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/chronology10.php?opt=chrono&yr=1939

and scroll down to May 25th

regards

tempest aka ian

Hiya,
my mum as seen the article today that was sent to me. That was very emotional for us but at the same time feel we are putting their little lives in order which is totally what they deserve.

My mum also said that the article she was shown as a child had a quote from their grandma and it was in a local paper. Is that possible do you think or could she be confused? She can`t remember which papers were around in Wigan back then.

Sorry for being a pain and thankyou in advance for your help and support x.

Thankyou so much for your help.

If i don`t reply straight away thrn please don`t think i am being ignorant it`s just when i am at work.

I stumbled across their grave totally out of the blue and have now cut the grass and brambles. That`s when i found the other baby who died aged 4 days. Apparently, auntie Francis wet nursed 2 other babies following her baby`s death.

Robert was apparently quite a `naughty` boy but having my 3rd son diagnosed with autism and ADD i wonder if little Robert perhaps had the same, had he been living now. Elizabeth was very quiet, would make Robert take sweets for her if they were offered. Total opposites.

I have a photo of my 3rd son and Robert and they are identical. If they were both black & white it would be uncanny.

The day they went to play they held hands and walked around their kitchen table saying the lord`s prayer.They had never done that before. They kissed their mum and walked out never to be seen alive again.

I will send my email now. Thankyou all so much.

Sorry to hear about your Mum's cousins,

There was an article in The Times, Thursday, May 25, 1939; pg. 18; Issue 48314; col F which gives 5 lines reporting finding the bodies of these poor children.

If you send me your email I will send you a copy

Regards

Ian

God that is so sad Jane....

This came up when I googled but I'm sure there must be newspaper reports.

1939 May 25. - Inquest on Elizabeth Whalley (4) and Robert Whalley (5), brother and sister, of Ince, found drowned. - Monntain Mine of the Coppull Coal Company (formerly Birkacre Colliery) ceased work

Don't know if the mine bit has anything to do with it?

Hope you find what you are looking for.

Kind regards,

Cathy

OMG! - 39!

Thankyou all so much. We are visiting relatives later, the last few remaining to get it from the horse`s mouth so to speak to help us with the rest of the family.

Can i also ask where i can access old newspapers?
In my tree is Robert and Elizabeth whalley. My mums cousins. Aged 4 and 5 they went out to play and never returned. The police thought a travelling circus had taken them but their grandma insisted they would not be far from the house.
Anyway, the police eventually checked local and found an open drain. They took a rake to probe and felt something. When they lifted it up Robert and Elizabeth was on the rake holding hands. They believed gas fumes had caused them to fall in.
My mum has said that their grandma was in the paper prior to their little bodies being found.
Can i find the article? It is so sad.
Their mum never left the house again after that.

In the 1901 census my great grandmother and great grandfather were boarders in a house in the town where I was born. There were 39 people living in the house - which is still there and is just a large Victorian terrace.

They must have been squeezed in like sardines!!

Kath. x

I bet the 1919 birth entry is an error, it should say Havard.

Jane, the person who deleted a post either posted something that was wrong, or said the same as Brummiejan.

Believe me, 7 or 8 in a 3-roomed house was very common. Makes you wonder where all the kids were when the parents conceived the next child!

Whoever registered the birth of John W Wraith gave the mother's maiden name as Wharton but on the other births they have given her correct maiden name.

If you buy the birth cert it may say something like mother Sarah Wharton formerly Havard but not necessarily. The registrar would just write down what he was told.

Jennifer

Sarah's first husband died in WW1

WHARTON, JAMES
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment
Unit Text: 20th Bn
Age: 23
Date of Death: 03/05/1917
Service No: 24755
Additional information: Son of Walter John and Maria Wharton; husband of Sarah A. Wraith (formerly Wharton), of 8, Taylor St., Moy Lane, Wigan.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 7.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

Yes she was married twice and we have the man - with the surname of Wharton and they had a child James Wharton Born 1915 mother`s maiden name Havard.

She then married Edric Wraith 1918 - and we thought their first born was John Wraith but it states a John W Wraith with maiden name Wharton not Havard.

All the other children are listed Havard?

Confusing?? I love a mystery!

surprising sometimes how many house holds are at one address

there are addresses in mansell street(1881), with 6 or more families at one house number there
Bob

looks like she was married twice

Marriages Mar 1915

Havard Sarah A James Wharton Wigan 8c 111

I see all the other children were born later after 1922 all with mmn of Havard.

Jane this is what keeps us all going, unravelling mysteries

marriage

Name: Edric Wraith
Spouse Surname: Sarah A Wharton
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1918
Registration district: Wigan
Registration county (inferred): Lancashire
Volume Number: 8c
Page Number: 129

when were the other children born?
Could she have been married twice?

Just looking for son of Sarah Ann Wraith and Edric Wraith. John W Wraith - 1919 found that but it says maiden name of mum was Wharton not Havard as stated on all her other 9 children`s births. Could this be an error.
Sarah Ann Havard
married
?Wharton 1915
Married Edrick Wraith in 1918

Also, John appears to be the only child born with a second name. Any help appreciated.
Thankyou.

I have just looked at the 1901 census and his dad is on that so will work with that first.

I am quite new to all this and i am still surprised at how many people lived in one 3 room house. I absolutely love it.