Genealogy Chat

i have a emma (spelt) frockings, on marraige cert b1836 burton pidsea yorkshire, i have found her in the 1841 census (spelt) frokins & her birth in family search (spelt) frokins. but cannot find her any where else with both spellings, can anyone try to solve this please.

When did she marry?

OK..is this it?

Emma Frockings
Year of Registration: 1862
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Hull (1854 Onw)
County: Yorkshire - East Riding, Humberside
Volume: 9d
Page: 244

Who did she marry?

This one? It is the only one at FreeBMD.

Marriages Mar 1862
Collins George Henry Hull 9d 244
Frockings Emma Hull 9d 244
Horn Ellen Hull 9d 244
Island William Hull 9d 244

Which husband?

1861? Age is a bit 'out'.....not unusual!

Name: Emma Frawkins
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Hedon
Town: Hedon
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England


Registration district: Sculcoates
Sub registration district: Hedon
ED, institution, or vessel: 2c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Emma Frawkins 18
Ann Mitchinson 45
Catherine Mitchinson 73

The 1841 household, with family names that help when searching:

Jane Frokins 35
Mary Frokins 9
Charles Frokins 7
Emma Frokins 1

That 1861 Emma looks good!

1851

Name: Emma Frawkins
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Burton Pidsea

Civil Parish: Keyingham
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Patrington
Sub registration district: Patrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Emma Frawkins 11
Ann Gibson 71
Eleanor Gibson 26
Robert Gibson 71

1871


Name: Emma Island
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Burton Pidley Holderness, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Kingston Upon Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hull
Sub registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 10

Household Members:
Name Age
George Hodgson 63
Emma Island 31
Kate Island 8
William Island 33
William Island 6

But then I guess Dean knew who she married, since he has the certificate.

Now he knows her mother's surname, since Ericthered found her living with her grandparents. Lucky!

Of course, the IGI gives her birth as 1839, not 1836.

EMMA FROKINS Christening: 29 SEP 1839 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Mother: JANE FROKINS
Batch No.: C108801


And it is interesting that only the mother is shown. It matches the mother in 1841. Charles Gibson Frokins baptised 1836 is also in that batch, again only the mother is shown.

What father's name is given on the marriage certificate?

So the age wasn't very much 'out'...........

Indeed. Unless this isn't the Emma Frockings who married in 1862 -- but her details in 1871 match up too.

thanks for all the help, her fathers name was john he is also very hard to , find so could the name have changed from frawkins to frokins

Births Sep 1839
Frokin Emma Patrington 23 73

thanks for all the help, her fathers name was john he is also very hard to , find so could the name have changed from frawkins to frokins, yes she did marry william island.

also

Births Jun 1842
Frokins William Patrington 23 67

your starting to confuse me even more with this info

No, the name is unlikely to have 'changed'..........you have to think laterally when searching for people on censuses..........mostly, they couldn't read or write, so the spelling of their name usually depended on how the enumerator 'heard' it.............

What I find a little confusing you see, Dean, is that only the mother's name is given on the two baptism records.

Usually, that is the case only for an unmarried mother. This may just be an anomaly, but it's notable that it happened with both those children.

If she wasn't married to John Frokins, her name wouldn't be Frokins. It would be Gibson, one would think from the name of the grandparents.

But is it possible that he was the Gibson? And they were not married? Children of unmarried parents often did make up father's names from bits and pieces of the truth.

Have you found any of the other children in later censuses, or marrying or dying? I havenot had any luck.

How about Charles Frockingham, born abt 1836 in Burton Pidsea? He is in the 1851 (Frakingham), and all the censuses up to 1901. Not with family in 1851, though.


Also:

Name: John Frockingham
Birth: abt 1821 - Burton Pidsea; Hull, Yorkshire, England
Residence: 1871 - Knightsbridge, St Margaret, London, England

and other Frockingham/Frokinghams born in Burton Pidsea, in the censuses.


Could this be your John, remarried?

Name: John Frawkins
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Thorngumbald
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England


Oh wait. I had got it in my head that there was a father John in the 1841 census. There wasn't.

Jane Frokins 35
Mary Frokins 9
Charles Frokins 7
Emma Frokins 1

They were in the workhouse. I think Jane may not have been married, and the John on the marriage certificate may have been fictional.

Emma's birth certificate should resolve that -- see the GRO birth entry I put in an earlier post.

This is the Gibson grandparents in 1841 in Keyningham:

Robert Gibson 60
Ann Gibson 60
Ellen Gibson 15


They did have a son John, but much younger than Jane Frokins:


JOHN GIBSON
Christening: 28 MAR 1824 Sutton In Holderness, Yorkshire, England
Father: ROBERT GIBSON
Mother: ANN
Batch No.: C107461

He is the only child of theirs in that batch.

The earlier batch for Sutton in Holderness is C107462.

An Eliza Gibson born 1810, daughter of Robert, is the only possible child there.

The question is how the Gibsons were related to Emma -- mother's parents or father's parents?

There is a Jane Gibson christened 1809, daughter of Jonathan.