Genealogy Chat

Dean says thank you by PM!

Any thoughts there, Dean?

The name shifts geographically in later years:

Births Sep 1895
Frokingham Ruth Sculcoates 9d 251

Marriages Sep 1924
Frokingham Ruth Myers Hull
MYERS Sidney Frokingham Hull 9d 679

Births Mar 1930
Myers Charles S Frokingham Bridlington 9d 563


There are 9 Frokinghams in the 1901 census (barring mistranscriptions).


In Sculcoates:
Alice Frokingham 8
Dora Woodall 4
Elizabeth Woodall 34
Hilda Woodall 15
Jessie Woodall 3 months
John Woodall 35
John Woodall 1
(A blended family by remarriage, it seems)


In Holy Trinity:
Charles Frokingham 32
Margaret Frokingham 29
* Ruth Frokingham 5


In Sculcoates:
Charles Frokingham 65
George H Frokingham 21
Mary Frokingham 62
Thomas Frokingham 34
William Frokingham 26


The father of Ruth's father Charles, in the 1871 census, is:


Name: Charles Frokingham
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Southcoates


That would seem to make him your Emma's older brother -- that is, the great-grandfather of Charles Myers born in 1930 was your Emma Frockings' brother Charles.

If Emma Frokins in 1841 is your Emma.

This looks like the death of the John, born in Burton Pidsea, who was in London in 1871 (too young to be your Emma's father, born circa 1821):

Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%)
FROCKINGHAM John Chelsea 1a 324

Editing: stupid me, that's a marriage. Related somehow, one would think.

I wonder whether this is mother Jane's death (possibly before the 1851 census and registered later):

Deaths Jun 1851
Frohingham Jane Patrington 23 46

-- searching FreeBMD for any events for

fro*ingham

And perhaps father John -- or more likely the John married to Anne:

Deaths Sep 1867
Frokingham John 62 Patrington 9d 170

If you search trees here at GR you will find that GR member Martin has all these people in his tree:

Emma 1839 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire
Charles 1836 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire
Mary 1834 Buton Pidsea, Yorkshire
Jane 1827 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire
William 1825 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire
Robert 1823 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire
John 1806 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire
John 1805 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire
John 1804 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire

and others. Mary, Charles and Emma appear to be the children in the 1841 household of the Emma you think to be yours.

I would certainly contact that person!

More tidbits.

The wife of John Frawkins in 1861:

Name: Anne Frawkins
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Thorngumbald, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Thorngumbald
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

is Anne Frokingham in 1881:

Name: Ann Frokingham
Age: 71
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1810
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Thorn, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Thorngumbald
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: Priv Cottage
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Occupation: Annuitant
Registration district: Patrington
Sub registration district: Patrington

So you might want to look for descendants under that name.

You can search FreeBMD and the censuses for surname

Fra*ingham
Fro*ingham

for instance.

Batch for marriages in Burton Pidsea, 1813 to 1836: M108801.

No Frokins marriages.

Marriage and christening batch numbers for the IGI are here, if you want to play with trying to find any of these people.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm

(you have to copy and paste that back together)

The earlier batch for Sutton in Holderness is C107462.

An Eliza Gibson born 1810, daughter of Robert, is the only possible child there.

The question is how the Gibsons were related to Emma -- mother's parents or father's parents?

There is a Jane Gibson christened 1809, daughter of Jonathan.

This is the Gibson grandparents in 1841 in Keyningham:

Robert Gibson 60
Ann Gibson 60
Ellen Gibson 15


They did have a son John, but much younger than Jane Frokins:


JOHN GIBSON
Christening: 28 MAR 1824 Sutton In Holderness, Yorkshire, England
Father: ROBERT GIBSON
Mother: ANN
Batch No.: C107461

He is the only child of theirs in that batch.

What I find a little confusing you see, Dean, is that only the mother's name is given on the two baptism records.

Usually, that is the case only for an unmarried mother. This may just be an anomaly, but it's notable that it happened with both those children.

If she wasn't married to John Frokins, her name wouldn't be Frokins. It would be Gibson, one would think from the name of the grandparents.

But is it possible that he was the Gibson? And they were not married? Children of unmarried parents often did make up father's names from bits and pieces of the truth.

Have you found any of the other children in later censuses, or marrying or dying? I havenot had any luck.

How about Charles Frockingham, born abt 1836 in Burton Pidsea? He is in the 1851 (Frakingham), and all the censuses up to 1901. Not with family in 1851, though.


Also:

Name: John Frockingham
Birth: abt 1821 - Burton Pidsea; Hull, Yorkshire, England
Residence: 1871 - Knightsbridge, St Margaret, London, England

and other Frockingham/Frokinghams born in Burton Pidsea, in the censuses.


Could this be your John, remarried?

Name: John Frawkins
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Thorngumbald
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England


Oh wait. I had got it in my head that there was a father John in the 1841 census. There wasn't.

Jane Frokins 35
Mary Frokins 9
Charles Frokins 7
Emma Frokins 1

They were in the workhouse. I think Jane may not have been married, and the John on the marriage certificate may have been fictional.

Emma's birth certificate should resolve that -- see the GRO birth entry I put in an earlier post.

No, the name is unlikely to have 'changed'..........you have to think laterally when searching for people on censuses..........mostly, they couldn't read or write, so the spelling of their name usually depended on how the enumerator 'heard' it.............

your starting to confuse me even more with this info

also

Births Jun 1842
Frokins William Patrington 23 67

thanks for all the help, her fathers name was john he is also very hard to , find so could the name have changed from frawkins to frokins, yes she did marry william island.

Births Sep 1839
Frokin Emma Patrington 23 73

thanks for all the help, her fathers name was john he is also very hard to , find so could the name have changed from frawkins to frokins

Indeed. Unless this isn't the Emma Frockings who married in 1862 -- but her details in 1871 match up too.

So the age wasn't very much 'out'...........

Of course, the IGI gives her birth as 1839, not 1836.

EMMA FROKINS Christening: 29 SEP 1839 Burton Pidsea, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Mother: JANE FROKINS
Batch No.: C108801


And it is interesting that only the mother is shown. It matches the mother in 1841. Charles Gibson Frokins baptised 1836 is also in that batch, again only the mother is shown.

What father's name is given on the marriage certificate?