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My Great Grandfather was born 3rd September 1880
His name on the birth cert says - Francis Bryant Warren
He was one of twins
His fathers name on the birth cert says - Allen Thomas James Vicary
and the mothers name is - Ellen Jane Vicary formerly Taylor

But on their marriage cert he is named as - Thomas John Vicary
married to - Ellen Jane Taylor on the 23rd June 1878

Is this normal for the names to change slightly????

Also my great grandfathers surname later in life changed from Vicary to Chamley, but i have found a marriage for Ellen Jane Taylor to George Edward Chamley but this is March 1873 which is five years before her marriage to the Vicary man and on George Chamleys death cert that i have it also states that Ellen Jane Chamley was present at the death and was his widow and thats dated the 1st December 1900.

So why marry husband no1 in 1873, husband no 2 in 1878 have twins in 1880 under the name of husband no 2 and still be with husband no 1 in 1900 time of his death and the children have their names changed from Vicary to Chamley????

Can anyone shed some light on this for me please

Samantha

Where did all this happen?
Katie

Is this them in 1881? No husband present,

BISHOP, James Head Married M 50 1831 Glass Cutter Manuf
Strand Middlesex
BISHOP, Matilda Wife Married F 50 1831
Pimlico Middlesex
BISHOP, James E Son Single M 23 1858 Mineral Water Labourer
Newington Surrey
BISHOP, John Son Single M 20 1861 Coal Carman Out Of Employ
Newington Surrey
BISHOP, Emma Daughter Single F 18 1863 Ginger Beer Trade
Newington Surrey
BISHOP, George Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Newington Surrey
BISHOP, Caroline Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Newington Surrey
BISHOP, Frank Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Newington Surrey
BISHOP, Arthur Son Single M 5 1876
Newington Surrey
BISHOP, Herbert Son Single M 3 1878
Newington Surrey
COLE, Harriet Lodger Widow F 56 1825 Charwoman
N K Essex
VICARY, Ann Lodger Head Married F 22 1859 Milliner
Camberwell Surrey
VICARY, Francis Son Single M 0 1881
Battersea Surrey
VICARY, Frances Daughter Single F 0 1881
Battersea Surrey

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
554 Folio:
28 Page:
50

Registration District:
St Saviour Southwark Sub District:
St Mary Newington Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Newington Municipal Borough:
Address:
6, Williams Place, Newington County:
Surrey

Hi Kate

No we have had this problem before with these three, children have the same names but the mother is not correct . i wrote to Vicary One-Name Study who looked into this and he said that they were the wrong ones as well

Samantha

Is this the twins birth in Surrey?
Births Sep 1880
VICARY Frances Edwina W Lambeth 1d 353
VICARY Francis Bryant W Lambeth 1d 353

Hi Ann

The twins were born Hospital York Rd, Lambeth.
The marriage for Vicary to Taylor was also Lambeth.
The death for George Chamley was 38 Compton Street, Pancras

Samantha

Hi Katie

Yes that is the twins, i have their birth certs and they are the correct names

Samantha

These are the only Vicary twins born at that time in London/Surrey. What reasons did they give for them being the wrong ones? The mother could have been using a false name if she was a bigamist!
Katie

This was my theory that shes a bigamist which as my husband said to me last night that if this is the case i never will be able to prove who the children belonged to.

Samantha

Have you found any of them on the 1881 and 1891 censuses?

i found my great grandfather on the 1891 census aged 10 years living with George Chamley age 56 years at St George Hanover Square St John Westminster (Francis said to be an adopted son)

Samantha

For ref:
1891 England Census
Name: Francis Chamley
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation: Adopted Son
Gender: Male
Where born: N
Civil Parish: St John The Evangalist Westminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 88 Vauxhall B??? [Bridge Rd according to the enumerator's description.]

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St John Westminster
Household Members: Name Age
George Chamley 56 - married; Traveller; Poona, East Indies
Francis Chamley 10

Have you found Ellen & the other twin?

Did you make the correction to this entry?

1881 England Census
Name: George Chumley [George Chamley]
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Charlotte Chumley
Gender: Male
Where born: Poona, East Indies
Civil Parish: Newington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 38 New Kent Road Palatinate
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Army Pensioner
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Trinity Newington
Household Members: Name Age
George Chumley 47
Charlotte Chumley 40 - wife; Dorchester, Dorset
George Chumley 16 - son; Messenger; Weymouth, Dorset
Charlotte Chumley 14 - daughter; Servant Domestic; Chatham


Marriages Sep 1863
Bussell Charlotte Weymouth 5a 552
CHAMLEY George Weymouth 5a 552
NEEDELL Sarah Eliza Weymouth 5a 552
TENNENT George Weymouth 5a 552

1871 England Census
Name: George Charnley
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Charlotte Charnley
Gender: Male
Where born: Bomlay Poms, Middlesex, England [This is a beauty! Image is East Indies, Bombay, Poona.]
Civil Parish: Alverstoke
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Gosport
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street Address: Military Clerk's Quarters, Weovil Lane [Not sure about 'Weovil'.]

Occupation: Military Staff Clerk, Royal Eng
Registration district: Alverstoke
Sub-registration district: Alverstoke
Household Members: Name Age
George Charnley 36
Charlotte Charnley 29
George Charnley 6
Charlotte Charnley 4

?????
Deaths Dec 1912
CHAMLEY Charlotte 69 Woolwich 1d 1310

Hi Ozibird

This is them

No i havent found the other two

Samantha

Have you found a death for George's first wife before his 2nd marriage?
If he was still legally married then Ellen Jane's first marriage never happened so her subsequent marriage wasn't bigamous..

Ok so the 1st wife Charlotte died in 1912, George died in 1900 and Ellen Jane Chamley is on the death cert as his widow,

Ok now im really confused

What was the occupation of George on his death cert? It could just be two different Georges, but unlikely. Poona seems to be a clincher.

Ozi

1901 England Census
Name: Charlotte Chamley
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Dorchester, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael and All Angels
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 8 St James Place

Condition as to marriage: wid

Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich
Household Members: Name Age
Charlotte Chamley 50

Ozibird

Pensioner from Royal Engineers

And i do have him as being born Poona

Samantha

Well that's certainly him then.

The bummer is finding Ellen.

As for your original question about names changing slightly. It happens all the time. Many reasons - don't like their given names, always known by a middle name, etc, etc, etc.

Ozi