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There are several baptisms of children of an apparently unmarried Ann Rumsay at

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html

First, a birth of Ann, 7 July 1802, Wareham, which I think is here.

children:

John 1817 Holy Trinity, Wareham, Dorset
Jane 1830 Steeple, Dorset
Mary 1823 Steeple, Dorset


One reason it can be hard to find someone in censuses is that their parents weren't married and the mother subsequently married, and the child then appears in censuses under the stepfather's surname.

Church Knowle and Steeple, Dorset, are about a mile apart, a couple of miles south of Wareham.

Groom's Name: John Ricks
Bride's Name: Ann Rumsey
Marriage Date: 04 May 1835
Marriage Place: Church Knowle, Dorset, England
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M15848-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 1279492
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973


1841?

Name: Ann Ricks
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Where born: Dorset, England

Civil Parish: Kimmeridge

John Ricks 33
Ann Ricks 38
Jane Ricks 5
Eliza Ricks 2
George Ricks 3 MO


The children's ages match wtih an 1825 marriage, and that Ann's age matches with the 1802 baptism.


The household in 1851 in Steeple, Dorset:

John Rickes 43
Ann Rickes 48
Jane Rickes 15 born Reddesmille, Dorset
Liza Rickes 12 born Bradle Steeple, Dorset
George Rickes 10 born Bradle Steeple, Dorset
Ann Rickes 16 - visitor born Wareham, Dorset

Janey. That looks a very good possibility. Where can John be in 1841??

Finding the others, looking for him under various variants of various names. ;)

It looks like George and Hannah parents of Ann 1802 only had one child baptised, anyhow. Oops, that was George and Mary, I think.


Someone here at GR has Jane Ricks 1835 Church Knowle, Dorset, in their family tree.


Mmmm -- and you do know that there are several people who have John Rumsey, born variously 1815-1822, in Steepley Leese / Steeple / Isle of Purbeck, Dorset, in their trees?


1871 census

Name: John Rumsey
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Maryann Rumsey
> Where born: Isle of Parbeck

Civil Parish: Kinson
Town: Kinson
County/Island: Dorset

John Rumsey 55
Maryann Rumsey 47
Joshua Rumsey 17
Edwin Rumsey 15
Job Rumsey 6
Joseph Rumsey 4
Louisa Rumsey 12
George Forrest 49

Hi Janey.

Yes that 1871 census is one that i have found. Their are a few trees on Ancestry with the same family in. Most of the trees i think have copied of each others;-(

It is Edwins cert that i have, that i was able to get mums maiden name of Guinea.

Janey....My bed is calling me now, so i will look in first thing in the morning for anything else you may have found.

But a Thank you to you and all that have contributed to this thread, most appreciated;-)

Lisa x

What I was pointing out was the place of birth given there for John Rumsey: Isle of Purbeck. Which matches what a few people have in their trees here at GR. And the Q was whether you know all the people who have that info in trees here at GR -- and so what their connection with him is.

By the way, you don't seem to have him in a tree here at GR, even with an approx birthdate, and that's always a sensible thing to do if one hopes to meet someone related who might have info.

Btw, your "c" birthdates for the children -- it really makes sense to find the records at FreeBMD and have accurate dates, since they can help to place people in time and space.

Births Jun 1854
RUMSEY Joshua Timothy Poole 5a 301


So they returned to England sometime between John Henry's birth (for which we do only have a "c", 1850) and early 1854, for example.

You said: "i dont know if there was anymore between George and John??"

Well ... there's another birth in Poole in that period:

Births Dec 1852
RUMSEY William Poole 5a 281

and a death that could correspond:

Deaths Sep 1852
Rumsey William Poole 5a 185

It's conceivable that the child died in very early infancy, and the death was registered before the birth. There's no William Rumsey in Pool reg dist in 1851, so I'd suspect that to be the case.

So that could narrow the timeframe for their return.

Thank you very much Janey, and all that have helped me.

I have yet to update my tree here on GR with dates of birth. When i uploaded it to here, it missed some dates of births etc out.

So am still wondering where parents John and Mary (Guinea) married and where the two eldest boys were born???

EDIT..Of to work now, but will check on this thread later. :-)

I think you need some USA help here. I can't find either one of them in 1841 which makes me feel they might be in the US.

Ozi

I did take a poke at US censuses, with the free search (not being able to see details), but the early censuses just aren't detailed enough.

1850 is the first one that lists all household members, not just head of household. But relationships aren't shown, so searching is difficult even with full access: you can't search for Bob son of Bill and Sally, for instance, you have to look at each search result to see who is in a household.

Hi Ozibird.

Yes...i do think they were born somewhere in the US. As it says on later Census reports that the two eldest boys were British subjects.

Hi Janey.

Thank you for looking at the US census for me.

If they arent detailed enough as you say, what else can be done to found them????

Too bad we weren't told about this one:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/thread/1246905

Rumsey descendants who emigrated to Australia. How infinitely better it would have been to continue in that thread.

Was it mentioned here that Mary Guinea's husband was John *Henry* Rumsey?

Potentially useful or even crucial info.

Hi Janey.

My apologies if i started a new thread when maybe i should not have. I did it because the other thread was more for the Australin search, so i didnt want to continue on the same thread and have confusion on it.

The thing about the name Guinea is that in the English censuses, the handful of people with that surname are almost all Irish.

Searching the US census without having paid access, I can do an "exact search" in 1850 for surname Guin* born in Eireland (heh, cute typo - I actually searched for Ireland. ;) ) There are a handful of Guinea, Guinee, Guiney and Guinney entries there too.

There's an Eliza Guiney in Essex, NJ, born abt 1830 in Ireland. Maybe somebody could look at her?

It's just that Mary Ann Guinea seems quite young to have travelled to the US by herself if she was unmarried, so if she did marry in the US, maybe she went as a child with parents.

An Irish birth, for instance.

Name: Mary Ann Guiniff Or Guinea
Birth Date: 08 Apr 1821
Birthplace: DROMORE PARISH,DOWN,IRELAND
Father's Name: William Guiniff Or Guinea
Mother's Name: Hagar
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C70005-1
System Origin: Ireland-ODM
Source Film Number: 496515
Collection: Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881

- "Guiniff" is probably "Guiness" misread by someone who didn't understand old handwriting, where a double "s" looks like a double "f" to us.

The thing is, Lisa, that you started out this thread giving no info at all except an obviously irrelevant record about Guinery -- and we had to pry info out of you in bits and pieces in order to do searches, or find it ourselves! Nobody in this thread knew about the other one, or the info in it.

As far as what other searches can be done ... I think we're doing 'em, and we just aren't getting anywhere.

I'm so suspicous of that Guinea/born Oxfordshire business. It is just so unlikely. One thing I wonder is whether Guinea was a previous married name, and she just reported it on the birth registrations as if it was her birth name ...

Thank you Janey. Again my apologies to you and everyone, for starting a new thread.

I wonder aswell, why John would go to the US in the first place?? Perhaps he was in some sort of Miltary???

I never thought of perhaps Mary could have been previously married.

What if the eldest children were John's, born in the US, and not Mary's at all? Mary might never have left England. Or vice versa. ;) (and they just adopted their stepfather's surname)

One or both of John and Mary could have been widowed by 1850ish, and brought children to their marriage (or partnership). Or have left / been left by a previous spouse.


Here's what their deaths say about their ages:

Deaths Dec 1895
Rumsey John 80 Poole 5a 150 (1815)

Deaths Mar 1904
RUMSEY Mary Ann 77 Poole 5a 181 (1827)


By 1843, the approx year of the first child's birth, John was pushing 30 (although that age at death looks a little rounded), and Mary Ann was only 16ish, again if that age is relatively correct.


>>>> Um ... is this Mary in 1901??

Name: Mary Rumsey
Age: 77
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Pauper
Gender: Female
>>> Where born: Caloutta, India
Condition as to marriage: widow

Civil Parish: Longfleet
County/Island: Dorset
Registration district: Poole
ED, institution, or vessel: Poole Union Workhouse


1891

Name: Mary A Ramsey
Age: 67
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John Ramsey
Gender: Female
Place of birth - NOT KNOWN

Civil Parish: Kinson

John Ramsey 75 - born Purbeck
Mary A Ramsey 67
Louisia Ramsey 28
Alfred Wedmore 14
Herbit Hunt 16





I'm just sticking this here because I was looking at it; one child born to the marriage as findable: Eliza Jane, 1845

Groom's Name: Alexander Guinea
Bride's Name: Mary Taylor
Marriage Date: 27 Jan 1842
Marriage Place: Dromore Parish,Down,Ireland
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70005-1
System Origin: Ireland-ODM
Source Film Number: 496515
Collection: Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898

Records at FIBIS are scant for this name, but there's this one:

http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php


Birth announcements taken from East India Register
Birth Date 9 - Apr
Birth Year 1830
Baptised Surname Guinea
LDS Film Reference None
IOR Reference None
Source Name East India Register
Source Year 1831
Source Edition 2
Source Presidency Madras
Source Event Birth
Entry At Honowur, Mrs. John Guinea, of twins
Transcribed by FIBIS Volunteers

There's also an 1866 marriage of Macario Flory and Anna Guinea, shown at pilot.familysearch as born 1848, father Rebina Guinea.

And pilot.familysearch has these births/deaths:


Name: Jeremiah Guinea
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 12 Oct 1854
Burial Place: Nusseerabad, Bombay, India
Death Date: 11 Oct 1854
Death Place: Bombay, India
Age: 27
Birth Date: 1827
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B00259-7
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 462966
Collection: India Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948

Name: Jerimiah Guinea
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 10 Apr 1850
Burial Place: Allahabad, Bengal, India
Death Date: 09 Apr 1850
Age: 19
Birth Date: 1831
Occupation: Pvt 44 M. 53rd Regt
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B39237-1
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 498988
Collection: India Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948

Name: Patrick Guinea
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 03 Aug 1854
Burial Place: Ferozepore, Bengal, India
Death Date: 02 Aug 1854
Death Place:
Age: 27
Birth Date: 1827
Marital Status: Unknown
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B02563-8
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 528360
Reference Number: v5 p33
Collection: India Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948



So I'm really thinking ... Irish origin, father in military, born in India ...

Thanks Janey.

The 1901 likes quite interesting.

And the Eliza Jane, are you saying she is another child to John and Mary also???