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Thanks, Ellen. This may be a sister of Elisabeth / Betty Ford / Foord, will check it out. Given the way people lived in those days, in mixed families, I think maybe the only way to solve conundrums is to go back and forward with different family groupings and try to check the census for relationships, eg son, niece, etc and try to see the patterns. Sometimes groups lived at addresses close to each other, ie in the same area. Thanks again, Paul

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ELIZABETH HYND Pedigree
Female


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Event(s):
Birth: 10 JUN 1827

Christening: 21 JUL 1827 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: WILLIAM HYND Family
Mother: MAY FORD


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C112828 1820 - 1835

Hi,There is only that 1 Bapts for a William Hynd and Margaret Hunter.

Ellen

Hi Janey ! I can't find a birth or christening record for John Hynd. The Hynd family grave is in the Eastern Cemetery, 2 separate lairs containing no less than 12 members of the Hynd family from 1870 (Marjory / May Ford) through to 1960, 90 years later. No William there, but he would have died before the Eastern opened in the 1860's, so would most likely have been buried in the Old Howff, where I found William Hynd died 1834. All Hynds buried in the Old Howff listed in http://www.fdca.org.uk/HowffInitHickey-Hyssop.pdf . Our interpretation of the 1851 census assumes that Mary is synonymous with Marjory / Marjorie / May, which does seem to work, given William Junior. Cheers, Paul

Hi rootgatherer ! These are all good questions. Problem is that the 1827 marriage record is basically a one-liner in an Old Parish Register. All it says is "William Hynd, Weaver, & May, daughter of Robert Ford, Tailor, both in this Parish." None of the family details that were required in later certification, so makes it much more difficult to trace back when researching one's family tree. Doesn't say whether father was deceased, which I think we can take to mean that he wasn't deceased at that time. Don't know if that helps at al ? Thanks for your input. Best regards, Paul

OK, Ellen. Thanks, Paul

Hi Janey ! Yes, David Hynd is my great grand uncle, born on 30 Nov 1828, to William Hynd and Marjory / May Ford. It's interesting to see where the various family members end up in terms of address, and at what an early age they were farmed out to work in the mills, if necessary staying with other members of the extended family, or as lodgers elsewhere. Sometimes the relationship in the census record gives a clue. I think I'll chase David down a bit more and see if he leads me back to any other member of the family. Thanks again, Paul

I've got a Jannet Lamond, christened on 30 Apr 1809, so date about right for her age in 1841. Christened in Glenisla, which is a country village in Angus not far from Dundee. May or may not be any family connection to the Hynds, but David was very young, 12, to go work elsewhere, though quite common in those days, I guess. Thanks, Paul

Ellen, I just can't follow those C&Ps from the IGI when I have to scroll through multiple screens to see them and read through all the bumph. ;) I'm condensing for easy ref here -- what the records actually say is:


ROBERT LAMONT
Birth: 14 OCT 1826
Christening: 26 NOV 1826 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Father: JOHN LAMONT Family
Mother: JANET FORD
Batch No.: C112828


(Could William have been married before)

WILLIAM HYND
Birth: JUN 1821
Christening: JUN 1821 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Father: WILLM. HYND
Mother: MARGT. HUNTER
Batch No.: C112828


WILLIAM HYND
Spouse: MARGARET HUNTER
Marriage: 20 JUL 1818 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland
Batch No.: M113062

Hi Ellen ! Yes. Elizabeth is my great grand aunt. She disappeared off the census radar also, so I should try to track her down, may give a clue to the others. Thanks, Paul

Thanks Ellen and Janey. I will follow this up. If the remarriage theory is to work, I think this suggests that maybe Margaret died between 1818 and 1827 when William Hynd married Marjory / May Ford. That is, of course, entirely possible. Will check it out. Thanks again, Paul (PS: This would also mean that there are 3 x Williams: William Senior, William the son of Senior's marriage to Margaret Hunter, and William the son of Senior's marriage to Marjory / May Ford... gets complicated, but possible, given the propensity for fathers to name their 1st-born male after themselves.)

Just a thought, but could William Junior possibly be originally the son of one of the other Hynds, adopted by Marjory /May Ford after her husband William's death ?!? Would appreciate anyone's thoughts on that one. Thanks, Paul

I'm not especially persuaded by the previous marriage theory -- there's nothing really to suggest it, as the marriage you have coincides with the known births, and William would have had to be quite a bit older than Marjorie to have been previously married and having children as theorized.

What might be possible is that the William who died in 1834 was the William who was a party to the earlier marriage. ;)

I also wouldn't think it likely that Mary, a young widow with children of her own to support, took in a child from someone else. Do note too that the 4-yr-old child in the 1841 household would have to have been born after the 1834 death.

It wouldn't be terribly unusual for a young widowed woman (or a woman whose husband had left) to have children with someone else after the death / abandonment / separation. You're looking at it as thinking ill of the dead, but it was really pretty commonplace.

Have you looked at the actual image of the 1841 census household at scotlandspeople? Can't do it at Ancestry. Just to see who else might be in the vicinity, possibly in the way of single men. You never know, there could even be a "boarder" in the household that Ancestry has simply hived off from it in the transcription. (Its 1841 English transcriptions are full of things like 3-yr-olds being the heads of their own households, because they were living with a family with a different surname.)

Thanks a million, Janey ! These are all good points, that I shall follow up on individually. Will let you know what I discover. Best wishes, Paul (PS: I particularly like the tip about checking the actual census document itself, to see if there are any "boarders" around. Thanks again - I've learned a great deal today from you and other helpers here about how to go about researching available records when there isn't an obvious answer staring one in the face.)

In case you don't have it death for Marjorie

1870 FORD MARJORY HYND F 59 ST ANDREW (DUNDEE) DUNDEE CITY/ANGUS

Marjorie is given as widow of William Hynd (Handloom Weaver)

parents ...Robert (Master Tailor) and Jane Ford ms Foreman (both deceased)
Cert is signed by son James ...Arbroath Road Dundee.

Possible death for William

13/12/1846 HYND WILLIAM M DUNDEE DUNDEE CITY CITY/ANGUS

Edit........Sorry don't think this is him.....this one was a Merchant not a weaver

Old Howff Cemetery
4292 Hynd William 17Sept.1834 -age 39-Born Dundee-Weaver-died of a fever-last address-Hilltown

http://www.fdca.org.uk/HowffInitHickey-Hyssop.pdf


Ellen

P.S Could have been married 2

Have you seen this as a possible birth?

William HYND
Event(s)
Birth: 15 Mar 1805 Dundee, Angus, Scotland


Parents
Father: William HYND
Mother: Elizabeth Or Eliza LEIGHTON

JAS. HYND Pedigree
Male
MARGT. HOW Family
Marriage: 07 AUG 1787 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

MARGT. HYND Pedigree
Female
22 JUN 1798 Mains And Strathmartine, Angus, Scotland
JAS. HYND Family
Mother: MARGT. HUE