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Simon, during that 15 minutes, I was posting a bunch of info -- have a read back over my two posts on p.1.


Why are you saying son William was in a workhouse now when you repeatedly said *John* before???


1871

Name: William Sass
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Pauper
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hull
ED, institution, or vessel: Hull Workhouse


1881

Name: William Sass
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Pauper Inmate (Pauper)
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Kingston-Upon-Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Street Address: "Hull Workhouse" Anlaby Road

1911

SASS JOHN WILLIAM 1869 42 Prestwich Lancashire
SASS BEATRICE 1876 35
SASS BEATRICE MAY 1898 13
SASS WILLIAM ERNEST 1899 12
SASS JOHN HENRY 1901 10


John, William, John William ...

And William Ernest married as Ernest W?


Marriages Sep 1896
Hamer Beatrice Caroline Chorlton 8c 1480
Sass John William Chorlton 8c 1480

Eureka

Thanks Janey and Lesley - What a team

Look what I found Frederick and Louisa Marriage


groom's name: Johann Christian Friedrich Sasse
groom's birth date: 1829
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 29
bride's name: Johanna Maria Louise Koeppen
bride's birth date: 1836
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 22
marriage date: 09 Dec 1858
marriage place: Holy Trinity, Hull, York, England
groom's father's name: Johann Christian Friedrick Sasse
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: Heinrich Viezert Koeppen
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status: Single
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status: Single
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01519-7
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1702266
reference number: Item 5 page 238

Lesley? Where's Lesley??

Congrats on the find of course!

Janey
Don't worry William and John William are the same person.

The 1901 census records has written on it in where born Hull

I don't really think so, Simon. I think they're two different Freds.

If they are the same Fred, John/William's mother is Jane. Review the dates.

If you can find a birth for him, you're doing better than I.


Son John/William born in Hull 1866ish.

Fred #2 married Jane in Sunderland 1864.

Fred#2 and Jane are cohabiting in Tynemouth in 1871 (having married in Sunderland in 1864).
Why would their son be in a workhouse in Hull??

You might like to see the image from ancestry as it has his signature.

I am confused now.

Fred and Jane married in 1864 in Sunderland

Marriages Sep 1864 (>99%)
Sass Frederick Sunderland 10a 563

William was in a workhouse in Hull in 1871.

Which Census record are you short of?

I am still convinced I have found the right marriage in Hull and William Sass was born in Hull.

It does make more sense that Fred and Lou died and that why William ended up in the workhouse.

Can there really be two Fred Sass's in Northern England!

http://www.cyndislist.com/germany.htm looks interesting.

????
name: Johann Christian Friederich Saß
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 12 Sep 1828
baptism/christening place: Groß Lukow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany
father's name: Johann Friederich Saß
mother's name: Dorothea Friederika Schröder

indexing project (batch) number: I01383-4
system origin: Germany-EASy
source film number: 69175

Fred #1 c1829 and Louisa were in Hull in 1861
Children Jane and Julius, born Hull, were in that census with them.

John/William was born in Hull c1866 (per censuses).

Fred #2 c1832 and Jane Smith married in 1864 in Sunderland.
They are in the 1871 census in Tynemouth.
There are no children with them.

John/William is in a workhouse in Hull in 1871.

Fred#2 c1832, married, is in Sunderland in 1881, no wife.

John/William is in a workhouse in Hull in 1881.


There just is no reason to think #1 and #2 are the same people! The dates of birth given are different, the children of #1 show no connection with #2, #2 marries in one place before the last child is born in the place where #1 was living -- they're different people leading parallel lives.

Thanks Joy
Now I know Fred Sass's full name and his dad it could be easier.

Ok Janey

I think you are right, I have lost the plot.

What happened to Fred, Louisa and the kids that left William in a workhouse?

My Wife is still directly related to Fred and Louisa.

Fred and Jane not sure who they are but Sass and tailors easy mistake to make.

Thanks Ozbird

That does look like his Christianing record.

I have sent my email address to you in case you want the image with his signature.

Your wife is *probably* related to Fred and Louisa because John/William is *probably* their son and not the son of Fred #2 and Jane.

*If* the Freds are different people. Heck, they could be the same one, he could have deserted Louisa and hooked up with Jane, John/William could be a son of Louisa with some other man ...

Where is the record of the birth of John/William Sass c1866??


I wouldn't go pursuing the ancestry of any particular Fred until you've sorted out who yours is.

It might be worth having the marriage certificate of Fred and Jane just to know who *his* father was, for eventual sorting purposes.

JC

I have John / William Birth cert it gives the father as Fredrick Sass.

I have 3 census records with John William on

All state where born Hull including the 1901 and 1911 when he was living in Manchester.

Yes I will consider buying Fred and Jane marriage cert.

Thanks for your help

Simon, send me your email address. Ancestry has Julius Sass's birth transcribed as:

Name: Juline Sars
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
DISTRICT: Hull (1854 Onw)
COUNTY: Yorkshire - East Riding, Humberside
Volume: 9d
Page: _


for no reason, it's perfectly plain on the typed page. FreeBMD may have corrected it and Ancestry hasn't caught up. I'll make the correction and include your email address as a relation of his brother.

Simon, please, don't just tell me what you have -- show us the record!!

John/William birth certificate -- what is the actual name?? -- copy the record from FreeBMD to the thread. I can't find anything no matter what I search for.

I don't want to know what it gives the father as -- the question is who the mother is!!

Yes,

I can't find it either. I ordered and received this years ago.

John William Sass is his name.