Find Ancestors

And of course the only half-wit looking thing about you is all that money you paid to the "genealogist"!!!!

Genealogists tend to do things the old way. We here are search engine whizzes, and that is a skill set all its own that I fear many professionals have not quite caught up to.

Well , I thank you with the utmost of sincerity. No more money will leave my purse in pursuit of any genealogist.

Being a first generation kiwi, I have always wanted to know from where we sprang. It seems hard for us in the modern era to comprehend people not knowing their own kin, thankfully times have changed.

I look forward to making sense of it all, bring on the ancestors, warts and all.

On the other hand NZ is like the black hole of research for us unless you happen to be Maori ! {sp}

Question: If Ann Henrietta married my Charles Ross in 1909, my Hiram is listed as born 1907. You have Henrietta in 1911 with Alice (b.1907, aged 4) Hyram (1908) Walter (1905).

Forgive me, how do my Hiram and Charles 1912 fit into the equation?

Well it could be be that Charles had a previous wife so he couldnt marry until 1909 .
Just found the Baker children with her on the 1911

HOUSEHOLD BAKER ELIZABETH F 1889 22 Manchester Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD BAKER JAMES M 1895 16 Manchester Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD BAKER PETER M 1893 18 Manchester Lancashire

Hyram 1908 and Hiram 1907 (per birth certificate) On my Hiram's birth certificate dated 4/10/1907, Ann Henrietta is listed as Ross, formerly Bennett....

I am confused - again

She seems to chop and change, I wouldnt get too confused its quite normal here ! Women are concidered insane for some time after birth !

Susan, you are a novice. ;)

First, spellings in censuses must be assumed to be whacky. People didn't pay a lot of attention to spellings much of the time -- or enumerators spelled things as they thought best. This probably isn't a mistranscription, but it's worth checking the original.

Second, census ages are commonly a year out. The census was early in the year, and didn't ask for date of birth, it asked for age. So if a person had a birthday in the last 3/4 of the year, s/he will look a year younger than if the census had been at the end of the year.

Hyram 1908 in the 1911 *is* your Hiram!

Your birth certificate for Hiram shows parents as Charles Ross and Ann Henrietta Bennett.

It doesn't actually say they were married. ;)

People didn't have to produce proof of identity or marriage when they registered children. Henrietta Bennett Baker was undoubtedly going by Ann Ross at the time of the birth and they were presenting themselves publicly as married.

Now, the Charles Ross we have our eye on (son of William) was single in 1901, and Henrietta's husband died in 1901. Why didn't they marry before 1909?

Well, of course, that Charles may have just lied in 1901, and actually been estranged. Or an enumerator assumed.

But don't forget, there is this marriage:

Marriages Sep 1875
CASSERLY Lucy Salford 8d 11
>>> Ross Charles Alexander Salford 8d 11
Scott Arthur George Salford 8d 11
SCRACE Jane Salford 8d 11

which isn't consistent with Charles son of William in 1881:

Charles Ross 16 -- too young.

It's going to take some more digging, but the Baker-Ross marriage certificate seems to be the place to start.

I'm not seeing a Charles married to Lucy or Jane to fit the bill for that marriage, in 1881. There's one in 1881 in the Royal Artillery in Kent who might be interesting ...

But the marriage certificate is where to start -- for age and father's name.

1881

Name: Lucy Ross
[Lucy Cassely]
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Bartholomew
Mother's Name: Beatrice
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Chorlton On Medlock
County/Island: Lancashire

Street address: 39 Greek St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Occupation: Mantle Saleswoman

Registration district: Chorlton

Bartholomew Cassely 64
Beatrice Cassely 55
Emily Cassely 30
Lucy Ross 26
Alfred T. Cassely 18


The person who married a Charles Alexander Ross in 1875.

Now -- she could be widowed ... or she could be estranged/deserted ...

Okay, so it looks like she was widowed and that is *not* our Charles Alexander Ross: born 1857, married 1875 and died:

Deaths Dec 1878
ROSS Charles Alexander 22 Chorlton 8c 584

Phew, I am getting hung up on what I don't know! My father certainly didn't know anything of the extra children in the equation. He only ever knew one Uncle Charles. No Alice or Walter that's for sure.

LOL, unmarried grandparents, my father is a black / white man, no grey!

Oh yeah, oh Yeah, skeleton's come one, come all.

Cheers

Good one Lindsey, the Baker children in 1911.

Susan -- this is about as close as you get to conclusive evidence without documentary proof.

Henrietta Bennett married Peter Baker and is with him and their children in the 1901 census.

Peter Baker died in 1901.

Henrietta (Bennett) Baker married Charles Ross in 1909, and in the 1911 census she is using the surname Baker again (perhaps because of her children; she is evidently estranged from Charles Ross) and has both the Baker children and your Ross children with her.

Q.E.D., almost.

(edited to fix my 1901 census blooper to 1911)

Cheers,

I am not yet thinking out of the square. I will pursue my searching. Now I have more rellies than I expected. I look forward to plenty of Hot Matches in the not too distant future.

Take care,

Susan

me: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born: Report error View Original Page
BAKER LATE ROSS, HENRIETTA HEAD WIDOW F 40 HOUSE WORK LANC M/C
BAKER, ELIZABETH DAUGHTER SINGLE F 22 BRACE - MAKER LANC M/C
BAKER, PETER SON SINGLE M 18 DONKY BRAND MAKER LANC M/C
BAKER, JAMES SON SINGLE M 16 SULLE MAKER FOR COTTON MILL LANC M/C
ROSS, ALICE DAUGHTER SINGLE F 4 SCHOOL LANC M/C
ROSS, WALTER SON SINGLE M 6 SCHOOL LANC M/C
ROSS, HYRAM SON SINGLE M 3 SCHOOL LANC M/C
CINCH, MARY LODGER MARRIED F 30 CLEANER LANC M/C

Address 3 CHARLTON ST ROCHDALE ROAD MANCHESTER County Lancashire
District Manchester Subdistrict St George

Many thanks Lindsey,

That is a whole lot of family to find. Who fathered Charles(1912),maybe Henrietta was pregnant at time of Census

Susan

It was either a very long pregnancy or immaculate conception ! Even if she delayed registering the child, only the cert can tell !

new information:

31 March 1909, marriage of Charles ROSS (bachelor) & Henrietta BAKER(widow). Both aged 40.

Father of Charles : William ROSS
Father of Henrietta: John Bennett

So he really would seem to be the 1901 Charles:

Name: Chas Ross
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Wm
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England

fudging his age somewhat (he would have been 47ish). Note that Henrietta is still saying she's 40 in the 1911. She gave her age as 34 in 1901. Which would make 42 in 1909. They both just gave nice round numbers, I'd say.

I would still say to get her previous marriage cert:

Marriages Dec 1885
> Baker Peter Manchester 8d 323
> Bennett Henrietta Manchester 8d 323

just to tie it up (check father's name, e.g.). Oh, well, I guess the surname Bennett in 1885 -- father John Bennett in 1909 -- kind of does that. ;)

Yup. I'm always right and I never lie!

I forget whether we did this -- I'd say this is Henrietta:

Births Jun 1867
BENNETT Henrietta Manchester 8d 274


and in 1871:

Name: Henrietta Bennett
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Manchester

John Bennett 40
Mary Bennett 40
Cisseley Bennett 12
Mary Bennett 8
Harriett Bennett 6
Henrietta Bennett 4

Hi EvieBeavie,

Thanks for today's information. I will order a copy of Henrietta's birth certificate tomorrow. I was excited to note on Charles's & Herietta's marriage certificate, tomorrow (31/3) is 100 years to the day of their wedding.....

I rang my Dad today to update him. He tells me today, he remembers an Aunt (news to me). He has an idea she moved to America. He also cycled to the outskirts of Preston (not sure exact location) to visit who I presume ,was his Uncle Walter. He thinks it was the only time they had contact. Charles died in an industrial accident.

On checking Eleanor's tree( thanks to Eleanor), she is the same place as me in the Ross tree ,with the other Charles Ross. (Son of Hiram St Quinton. * I could never make the tie up......