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Missing years, mystery wife, Please Help!!!
HE, WAS ROBERT MURDOCH, b 1829 Barbeth Farm, Stair, Ayrshire: youngest son of Sarah Murdoch, formerly Pettigrew and James Candles Murdoch, farmer.
I have been told that Sarah died when Robert was five or six but I have been unable to find a Scottish death record for her. (Added .. I now have a date .. see below)
Other than the above, I know next to nothing about Robert before 1862, when he is to be found living in Durham with a 'Scottish lass' (my great great grandmother) ... who, it turns out, had left her husband and children in Haddingtonshire.
For the remainder of their lives, she and Robert lived together, in NE England, producing five children. They FINALLY married in 1886. (almost thirty years after they left Scotland!).
HER deserted husband had died in 1870 and it had puzzled me that she and Robert had not married then? ... But when I finally tracked down their 1886 marriage certificate, there was the possible answer ... not only was SHE listed as a widow .. Robert was a WIDOWER!! Could it be that Robert's WIFE had been alive until 1886 and this was why they had been unable to marry for 25 years? Had he deserted a family too??.. Or maybe his 1st wife had left him? (Of course she could have died young? .. that spoils my theory but if it was, it was!))
I am desperate to discover WHO, WHEN and WHERE Robert had married and what became of his 1st wife? Were there any children?
I SUSPECT that it occurred in Scotland, as I don't THINK he moved to England until the end of the 1850s or early 1860s?
There are a couple of possible candidates, and whilst these show up in the IGI, they don't seem to exist according to census records.
Maybe someone, with more experience at searching, might be more successful than I have been? I would be so grateful for some help!!
Or do you think, with so little to go on, that this search for an unknown wife is a fruitless task?
Thanks for taking time to read this
Carole

A definite I think!
Margaret was Robert's eldest sister. She went on to marry a John Knox and there is lots of information there, but none of it touching on Robert!

A Michael has just sent me a PM telling me that Sarah Pettigrew, Robert's mother, died on 6th August 1835.
Thanks Michael
I have added it here, as it contributes to useful information.

In case it is any help: Robert's siblings were : Margaret, Agnes, Henry, Jane, and William.

Please, Please!!! If there is anyone out there with experience of Scottish family History research; I would be grateful for guidance if nothing else? I know about Scotlandspeople but I seem to have purchased hundreds of credits and have had little success! There must be less expensive avenues to pursue?
Also, I don't know how to find early Scottish death records? .. I live abroad, so travelling to Edinburgh, or wherever, is out of the question.

Another snippet is that Robert did not use the Murdoch name during his early years in England. He went by his mother's surname and only reverted to Murdoch, or Murdock, towards the end of his life.
I did not mention this earlier as the English years are not the ones that matter here! ...

Hi Carole
I'm not very experienced at searching but I do like a puzzle! I had found a Robert Petticrew (spelt with a c not g) in the England 1871 census and wondered if it was him.

Name: Robert Petticrew
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Lanchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Lanchester
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration district: Durham
Sub registration district: Lanchester
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 184
Household Members:
Name Age
Christopher Petticrew 4
Henry Petticrew 1
Jane Petticrew 44
Margaret Petticrew 9
Robert Petticrew 40
Robert Petticrew 7
Sarah Petticrew 9



I also searched the 1851 Scotland census for Robert born Stair Ayrshire 1829 and found

Name: Robert Murdock
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Stair, Morshire
Parish Number: 490
Civil Parish: Stirling
County: Stirlingshire
Address: King Street
Occupation: Coach Driver
ED: 5
Page: 13 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 55
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1851_104
Household Members:
Name Age
Cathrine Maham 53
Mary Maham 16
Duncan Marten 25
Robert Murdock 22
Robert Willer 30

Have you located him for 1861?
best wishes
Julie

Hello Julie
Sorry to have disappeared but hungry husband needed feeding!!
Yes that is Robert. There are quite a few spelling variations! Jane is the ' lady ' friend. To all extent and purposes they were husband and wife. Actually the plot thickens as they called themselves Carr on the next censuses ... but this has been dealt with in previous threads ... , so I only mention out of interest!!
The reason for their unwed state is what I am after?
I don't know about your second find??
I suppose the thing is to see if that Robert continued in Scotland in later censuses? Mine was definitely in England in January 1862. (birth of twins in Jarrow ... again already dealt with in previous threads}
Thanks for your interest
Carole

I presume you are aware of the Knox family website that shows the links to the Murdoch's and Barbeth?

http://www.geographyhigh.connectfree.co.uk
/familyhistknox.html

Yes Julie
The Knox family website is great!!!!
Doesn't tell me much about Robert though.
I have also had a look at Stair Church Memorials. James Candles is there and also Robert's siblings, Henry and Jane but once more we draw a blank on Robert!

Hi Moody Blue
Robert and Isabella! I wonder?? I agree about the names.
To still be in Scotland for the 1861 census is cutting it fine; but not impossible. ... and I have found no evidence of his being in England in 1861. .. I suppose the thing is to see if that family unit still contained Robert sen. in subsequent censuses??
Thanks
Carole

Hi again Moody Blue
Sad! It doesn't work! Initially it looked so promising!
Robert and Jane were definitely in Durham for the 1871 census. There is no doubt that it is the correct family unit, despite the fact that they call themselves Petticrew and not Murdoch/k. Their twin daughters are the deciding factor, Sarah and Margaret! .. born Jarrow Jan 1862.
Their five children were Sarah, Margaret, Robert, Christopher and Henry. .. Sarah, my great grandmother, I know a lot about. Also Christoper and Henry. Jane, their mother, and her 'other' family are also quite well documented. It is Robert, pre 1862, who I need to discover more about?
Carole

I have just unearthed Robert's OPR birth record.
Definitely born 1829 Aug 10th, baptised 25th.
Definitely born at Barbeth Farm. The register was for the Parish of Stair, Ayrshire.
The 1841 census has him, age 10, at the farm, with his father and his sister Margaret, age 20 and brother William age 15.
The farm passed out of the Murdoch family in 1849 but James Candles continued to live there until his death in 1850.

Hello again Julie
I'm beginning to warm to your second find.
The Robert is the correct age, he was born in Stair: ...I was put off by the Morshire, when it should be Ayrshire but I don't think Morshire exists?? .. so maybe it is a transcription error?
I don't suppose it took any great training to drive a coach, particularly for a farm boy; so although he did not remain a coach driver, he might have been one for a while?
A long shot but I wonder if he married the 16 year old girl, Mary Maham (This puzzle is really getting to me and I really am clutching at straws now!!! )

Hi

The following are the list of marriages from Scotlands People

31/01/1851 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET BROWN/FR898 M Ochiltree /AYR 609/ 0040 0199 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
2 19/01/1851 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET BROWN/FR398 M Auchinleck /AYR 577/ 0020 0352 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
3 17/12/1853 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET WYLLIE/FR959 M Stewarton /AYR 616/ 0040 0420 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
4 17/12/1853 MURDOCH ROBERT JANET WYLLIE/FR633 M Dunlop /AYR 591/ 0030 0229 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
01/06/1853 MURDOCH ROBERT MARY RICHARDSON/FR605 M Coylton /AYR 583/ 0030 0246

FYI Ochiltree and Coylton are adjacent parishes to Stair. If I had to make a guess I would opt for the last marriage there- The Coylton one as Nos 1 and 2 are the same couple in their repective parishes as are Nos 3 and 4.


May help a little


Regards

Susan

I thought that too! They're not on Free BMD so you might want to try Scotlands people for a match. Incidentally was Jane living in Scotland with her first family as her whereabouts could have a bearing on where they met/where he was living?

oops posted at the same time as Susan but this was a reply to Carole's previous text

I have a few more credits for Scotlands people so if you give me some manes ect to work with will search for you.

Regards

Susan

Thanks Susan
Everything Helps!!!
But I think I may have to toss a coin?
If Julie is right about the Robert in the 1851 census, being a coach driver in Stirling, it adds a couple more options.
07/05/1853 - Janet Sneddon - Slamannan, Stirling.
01/01/1854 - Mary Allen - St Ninians, Stirling.
plus every eligible girl along his route?
Sterling is possible, as Jane lived in Haddingtonshire; not a million miles from Sterling.
Hmmmmm!!!!???

Oops
I think we were all typing away at about the same time!
Sorry! I'll read what you both have to say; digest and get back to you
Carole

Right Julie first
Jane was living in Tranent in Haddingtonshire. She was married to a David Montgomery, 20 years her senior. They had married in 1850. They had four children. Interestingly, the last child, born in 1859, was named Robert Murdoch Montgomery (suspicious or what?) After his birth record, no one has been able to discover what happened to the child? (But that is another story)
Sometime after the birth of Robert, and before 3rd January 1862, Jane fled the nest, either with, or to join, Robert in Durham... David died in 1870 which should have freed Jane to marry Robert. Why didn't she??
Most of the above has been dealt with in previous threads so please don't waste hours of your valuable time on the Montgomerys. ... but it can be useful to know the background?

Susan
That is incredibly generous of you!!!
I really don't know what to say; it is such a waste if one makes a wrong choice! I pretty much agree with your reasoning for Mary Richardson; so if you are absolutely sure you don't mind ... go for it. ... but maybe we should check Family Search first?