General Chat

I inherited my mother's old fur coat and also my grandmother's. They are beaver lamb which meant nothing to me until I asked someone in a local shop which sells sheepskin and leather goods. It seems beaver lamb is simply sheepskin the other way out and treated differently so it resembles beaver fur. I wear leather and eat lamb so don't feel any guilt about those coats. Most 1950s and 1960s old fur coats are simply beaver lamb. So if you have inherited one of them it is no worse than wearing a sheepskin or leather jacket. However I look like a teddy bear in them and it would have to be really chilly before I'd go out in one of them if at all. I have a fake fur coat with a hood which looks more modern anyway. When I was a child my father worked in Russia and we all wore fur in the winter there. Even small children had fur coats. I still own a traditional Russian fur hat with the flaps to cover my ears and I have worn it when the weather is cold. A woolly hat was just not warm enough for the temperatures we had in the Russian winter. That was before many of the new modern fibres. I would not go out and buy a new fur item knowing animals had died simply to make a piece of clothing but the fur I own was utilitarian in its day and necessary. We've not had weather cold enough to put any of it on for several years and my fake fur coat looks nice for posh evening wear. I think that it does depend a bit on what sort of fur it is. If an animal is one we eat anyway then using the leather or fur makes sense. Sue

Well yes I would wear a fur coat, and in fact bought one not long ago, its a jacket white fox fur, second hand for £25. My OH went mad, but like I say better on my back than stuck on the hanger. You wanted my opinion and Ive gave it. no doubt will get into trouble now. Regards Yvonne

I can remember walking down Lord Street in Southport in the 60's when there were lots of shops selling furs. Then they were seen as something very desirable that women could only dream about and afford if they won the pools. So why did this view change? Was it any more cruel then than it is now? No probably not. We just moved forward in life and artificial furs came onto the market. Who of you in the 60's had a Parka? Did it have a real fur trim or an artificial one? Whilst the films that have been mentioned do, I'm sure, show the darker side, lets not assume that this is the only side of the story. Otherwise it is a bit like condemning all builders, plumbers or electricians after watching the ''Tradesman from Hell'' program.

Rose,You can rant as much as you like,as far as Im concerned. I thought you put everything very well:-)) Roxanne x Bill,I wont watch the films,I know from what Ive been told, Thats enough for me. Fur farms are cruel,ther only interest is profit and the cheapest way of keeping them until their slaughter.

just so we dont go off track peeps,i will do another thread about field sports as this is about fur trade,[kind of] lots of good points everyone.xx

Hello Bill, I tend to incoherence when I rant (get too angry!) perhaps you would like to add a calmer note and reasoned argument! Rosexxx

If you think the fur industry is not cruel, I suggest that you have a look at www*peta*org*uk. Go to media centre, select Peta TV and click on fur and skins. It is pretty strong stuff though. Please don't think that as this film comes from abroad it has nothing to do with us as most of the skins and fur used here are imported from India and China. Many fashion items using small pieces of fur trim are actually clothes decorated with----- dog and cat fur. Someone was asking about vegetarian footwear. There are several companies offering this product by mail, just google vegetarian shoes. Bill

Sorry didn't come back to this last night but having read the posting from 'the other side' aka Joan....could not leave it! Please do NOT assume that all veggies/anti-fur/leather people A ) believe everything they read without using thier own intelligence/knowledge. B) are 'city dwellers' I am not (bred in the country, in the 'proper' country!) To address just a few of your points: Yes baby seals are cute looking,but who are you to say that people who wish to protect them would not also wish to save 'ugly' toads....I do not consider toads to be ugly! Re sheep killed by dogs,yes I have seen this and it is appalling.... I have also seen sheep left to starve tangled in barbed wire, when the famer had been informed...(I recued said sheep Christmas Day 8 years ago) I have seen chickens/ducks attacked by foxes ,not a pretty sight but hey the fox is wild,and not all veggies are squeamish you know! My own (free range) chickens didn't go, it is called good husbandry. The spurious argument that if we didn't eat cows/sheep etc we would somehow be over-run is nonsense....if you don't put a bull/ram/cockerel ( or vet!) etc in with the female of the species ,you just won't have that problem....I have read the opposite argument ...if we don't eat them/chase them they will be extinct! Tell that to a dodo! Also in terms of starvation, the fact is that animals bred for food eat more in poundage than they produce! No I am not perfect, but I am trying, I don't have products with gelatine in them, yes I still have chairs (my grandfather's) that were no doubt glued with animal glue....but surely that is the point ? In the world we now live in, there are so many alternatives to animal products that previous generations could not have. It is my responsibility (if not yours) to do the best I can to minimise suffering of those animals (ALL animals including humans) which live on this planet, whether they be cute 'fluffy and cuddly or warty, plain,slimy and generally unpleasant! Rant over (almost?!) best wishes Rosexxx

Maggielol:-)) Theres a moral in that story somewhere:-)))))

Hi Roxanne, My mum and sister were horrified when we were clearing out grans house and i walked off with it!! My view is, the poor beast is already dead - had been for at least 70 years!! The least I could do for it was give it a home in my attic!! My daughters have seen it - and they both became vegetarians. maggie

Hi Maggie,I remember an aunt having one of those,well actually she was my Great aunt. Even as A child I remember how awful it was, infact it frightened me to death! really horrid thing it was,but she loved it.

I wear leather and eat meat - and have even killed my own food!! For preference, the meat i eat lives outside (so no bernard matthews for me!) and preferably killed 'on the hoof' ie shot quickly or killed locally in a small abbatoir. But I won't wear 'new' fur. I have a disgusting reminder of how 'beautiful' fur looks on humans, it is a fox fur that belonged to my grandmother. For those of you who have never seen a fox fur, it is the fur from all of the fox - head, tail and legs, with the bones taken out, glass eyes, cloth backing and a clasp under the chin, where the lower jaw would be. You drape this object around your neck then clasp it together so it looks like the poor dead fox is biting itself, with it's boneless legs hanging down. I keep this object as my gran was very proud of it. She was given it because there is no way she could have afforded it. I also feel it is one of the most startling examples of humans using fur - and shows how pointless and gross it is. In times to come, when people forget this use, I will get it down from the attic and show it around as a not so gentle reminder. maggie

Dear,The Other side:-))) for you own reasons you want to be anonynous,personally,I let people know who I am,Im not ashamed of my beliefs! If I can just Quote you.'Can you imagine what would happen to the world if ALL animals were allowed to breed and populate without some kind of management!' Well,When does the Human Cull start???? As we are the ones that are over populating the world, Dont Make me laugh!! Yes,The seal hunt is cruel,Im against any form of cruelty,And Yes,The toads too. You dont know anything about me or what I fight for,so please do not say I dont know:-))))))

You betcha! Have done in the past and would again if I moved to a cold climate. T

Hi! I thought I would add to this thread as I did have a fur coat once, about 34 years ago, when we lived in England. It was a lovely real Mink Jacket and I felt wonderful in it. It was surprising how differently I was treated by shop staff when I wore it, which wasn't very often. It was quite funny when my husband bought it for me. We were in a big department store in London and, in the fur department, if you wanted to buy one you had to sit in a special area with chains round it.We were not dressed very smartly on that day and we got some very suspicious looks from the assistants, but I got my jacket.I sold it when we came to Australia, but I still have a Mink hat which I will never wear. Sylvia in Perth WA XX

I have spent an hour reading the anti-fur websites! While they draw attention to “cruelty’ to animals they are for the most part a load of false information destined to ‘educate’ city dwellers who have no idea about the real world of nature. Mother Nature herself is one of the cruelest participants in life on earth. First off – I agree that there is cruelty in the world – in all countries- and I totally agree that wanton cruelty should be stamped out but to blatantly state that all animals are cruelly raised and killed is an out and out lie. We have raised cows, goats, sheep, wild boar and horses, birds of all kinds. I live in the ‘wilds’ of Canada and have had hunters, trappers and farmers as friends and neighbors for over 30 years. Not one could ever be termed - cruel! Yes – I have worn, do wear and will wear leather and fur. Can you imagine what would happen to the world if ALL animals were allowed to breed and populate without some kind of management! If you all refuse to wear leather and fur you will surely be starving in a very short time. Have you ever seen a coyote with mange? It is a sorry sight – starving, losing its fur and near blind. Its food source was decimated by the weather the previous year. A whole area of forest was destroyed because the only food for a herd of deer was the bark of trees and when you debark a tree the whole way around – the tree dies along with the deer herd that still starved to death. Ever walked a field full of dead sheep and lambs that a dog belonging some city dweller that ‘lost’ it out in the country and left it for a hopefully, caring farmer to find and feed? Cattle are bred for meat but every other part of the animal is made use of – ever thought what goes into your Strawberry Jelly, the glue you use at the office, the bone meal you throw on the garden? And no- even in England I don’t believe they are cruelly slaughtered – and I know none of mine ever were. There are stringent rules on raising, trapping, killing etc. of wild animals by anyone – including natives and Inuit. Wild animals are their livelihood and they are ‘farmed’ exactly the same as are domestic animals. To take an animal when the species is low in numbers would be stupid and there are restrictions on what and how many can be taken. And YES – even with a wild animal – the whole thing has to be utilized. There are heavy penalties for wastage of animal parts. I hope all you nay sayers never visit MacDonald.s (or whatever fast food outlet), never wear leather shoes, buy a hand bag, buy a tube of glue, sit on a chair (it has been glued together you know) eat a pastry (lard comes from a pig), drink milk or utilize any other of the by products of the animals that PETA and their ilk are so often raising Cain about. Roxanne – you are so against the seal hunt – a seal is such a pretty sight – but you have never railed against the much crueler killing of millions of toads that are encroaching on the city of Darwin. The toads are being killed with knives jabbed into them and hit on the heads with steel hammers – but toads are not pretty – are they? However – each to his own but please educate yourselves about real life. I don’t condone cruelty of any kind but remember - there are two sides to every story.

Ive Just recieved this from P.E.T.A!! Tommy Hillfiger,drops fur!! “Starting immediately, the company will cease development of any product containing fur, and any fur garment already in production will be phased out of sales channels by the delivery of the spring 2008 collection.” Good News,Isent it!!

Hi Rose:-)) I really admire veggies:-) I call my self a semi-veggi,I eat mainly fish. not Ideal,but Im trying. Can I ask,Where do you get non leather shoes,specialist shops,Internet? I would be interested in finding out.

i feel theres no reason for wearing,i can understand eskimos etc that is needed.but not for glamourxxx

I like you, Roxanne! Rosexx