General Chat

I have now purchased their Wedding cert it states on the wedding cert John William Bull 33 Bachelor Labourer 52 Romford Rd, Father William Bull (dead) Bricklayer. Louisa Mary Lees 25 Spinster 52 Romford Rd, Father Henry William Lees Labourer Married on 15 August 1897. But the problem is John William on his daughter's birth cert is William John and his Sons it states John William I have looked for a John William/William John born between 1862 and 1865 I have seen from other family members he had a brother Samuel married to a Harriet Budge but nowhere can I find a birth cert for John/William or a census plus not long after Louisa died he supposedly married again (not sure who too) but went on to have at least 2 more sons and a daughter have looked at the 1901 and 1911 census and come up with nothing please help. :-S

I have been I contact with my great aunt and there is now more info there are 2 William Henry Bulls born West Ham in 1895 on in Jan and the other July my relative is the one born in July the other William Henry born in Jan is his cousin my William birth cert states his father was William John but on his sister Selina's cert it states John William also on the marriage cert it states John William. Also his family always thought that William Henry's father was also William Henry aswell!!!! So would the best thing to do now would be purchase both birth certs for William Henry in 1895 than find out who the other parents were for the other William Henry and try and work out the family history from that as I could than look on the 1891 and 1881 census. Any help or advice would be really appreciated now

I have also found out William John or John William had a big family, his father married 2 times, also I am not sure whether this will help but according to my great aunt who is still with us said her father William Henry used to say that his great aunt owned chalk farm/regents park land she died and no one claimed the land so it went to the Crown by the time a relative did the Zoo and railway had been built on the land....I had heard that through my grandmother as well was hoping I could find some sort of land records for names but think this will wait until after Xmas. Its so frustrating :-(

Parents of William and Stephen Bull born Sandhurst.

William Bull born Pyrton Oxfordshire to John and Martha Bull

Marriage for William?
William Bull married/F/M 3a 625 1864 Henley Oxfordshire to Emma Chuter.

Emma Chuter 1833 Brentford to Stephen 1796 and Jane Chuter 1796.

Maryb.

It was good of you to try. I think we'd all love to get this mystery sorted out, but my money (if I had any to spare!), would be on the family Maryb, found, despite the baptism complications :-D

As I feared I did not find a parish with the right page number range. The maximum page number for West Ham for that year and quarter is 708. I would expect register office marriages to be the high end of that range starting around 500.

Thanks anyway - it was worth a shot.

The marriage wisn't at Holy Trinity and the Marriage Locator program can't tie it down to a particular parish. So I'll have to search the West Ham parishes but won't be able to do that until late tomorrow afternoon.

It may be a register office marriage in which case I won't have the details.

The death record to go with the probate Maryb mentioned earlier:

Probate/Will
William John Bull died 22/4/1933 of 21,Merton Road Walthamstow E17 Probate £800 on 10/9/1956 to William Henry Bull a Timber tester.

The probate also said the he'd died at St Joseph's Hospice, Mare Street Hackney, so I wondered about this death:

Deaths Jun 1933 Bull William J 62 Hackney 1b 396

The age at death looks about 5 yrs out, but such details are only as good as the knowledge of the informant reporting the death. If it were a hospice official, say, they may have just guestimated his age.

Kense, do you have access to the details of the 1917 marriage of William Henry Bull, just to see what it says about his father, and whether it confirms William Henry was in the navy at the time of marriage?

Marriages Jun 1917
Barker Annie M Bull W. Ham 4a 612
Bull William H Barker W.Ham 4a 612

EDIT: is there a burial record for the infant William Henry Bull who died Q3 1895? Just wondered if it might give names of one or both parents?

I DO think that William Henry is the child of John William aka William,born Berkshire, who was the child of William the bricklayer born Pyrton Oxon, and his wife Emma.

I also agree the coincidence of Asott St and Ascott St isn;t, ie it does reflect the fact that John William, aka William, is the son of Emma from Brentford, widow of William Bull deceased bricklayer..

The naval record reflects the same occupation, labourer in sugar works, as factory labourer of the William Bull shown in the 1911 census Maryb found :

1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer<<<<<<
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William Henry Bull 1895)<<<;

The naval record says WIlliam Henry was born 28th Jan 1895, the death index also reflects this.

The child baptised in August is the child of William John and Louisa. We know their child survived to adulthood ; but how do we explain the anomaly of the 21st July birthdate?

I'd be happier if the date on the baptism were 28th July, then it could be a straightforward error. As it is, I can't explain it, but I am firmly of the belief that Maryb is right. WHB's naval record, address at time of baptism, occupation and parentage and parent's birth location in census 1911. The 1871.81 and 91 censuses also tally with John William's father being described as William Bull, deceased brick layer.

I strongly believe that George Bull and Elizabeth Wheeler are NOT the parents of John William Bull c1864/5. I hope I don't end up with egg on my face, but that's my current stance on the matter.

Also I have been told once out the Navy William Henry Bull was a Watcher in Royal docks-before Transport police on trains this is all great info but doesn't help with his dad who was married to Louisa Lees lol

Just spoken to my mother and all the info from Kucinta is correct, and from what she can gather William henry married Annie Marie Barker in 1917 and whilst he was away at sea his father died so Annie Marie paid for John Williams Funeral

As a by the by, is this William Henry Bull as a seaman in the Royal Navy?

First name(s) William Henry
Last name Bull
Service number K20057
Birth year 1895
Birth date 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth place West Ham<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth county Essex
Birth country England
Archive reference ADM 188/907/20057
Record set Royal Navy Seamen 1899-1919
Category Military, armed forces & conflict

His occupation on enlistment was factory labourer.

***This tallies with the 1911 census Maryb posted, with John W. born Reading, and a son William born 1895. West ham, who happens to be a labourer in a sugar works.***


1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer<<<<<<
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William Henry Bull 1895)<<<;

I seem to recall on your ancestry tree there is a picture of WHB as a young man in an open locket, I thought he might have been in naval sailor suit type top.

According to the record image he signed up for 12 yrs in August 1913, he was just under 5ft 4 ins, dark brown hair, blue eyes, fresh complexion, small scar l [eft?] side forehead.

EDIT: His birthdate of 28th Jan 1895 on his naval papers tallies with the birthdate on this death index record:

Name: William Henry Bull
Birth Date: 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Date of Registration: Sep 1970
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Horsham
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 1618

This caught my eye,but I can't find the death record to check his age at death.

Probate/Will
William John Bull died 22/4/1933 of 21,Merton Road Walthamstow E17 Probate £800 on 10/9/1956 to William Henry Bull a Timber tester.

John William and Louisa were in E15 when they married and he seemed to stay in that area.
Can't understand that it took 23 years to settle,unless they couldn't find the relatives.

Maryb.

I thought the baptism was rather quick (at 2 weeks) implying that the child was not expected to live long.

Now I am even more confused,

Is this proof that he was son of Emma and William + brother to Stephen Bull.

on the baptism record it states address 23,Ascot Street .

1891 25,Asott Street
Emma Bluth (reads Bull on original)
Stephen son born Sandhurst Berkshire
Martha wife
George son
Arthur son

What do you think guys.

Maryb.

thank you all x this is why I posted on here for help lol John William was in the Navy from what I have been told as well he did live at some stage with his brother

Think I'll just go tear my hair out... :-S

Another aside - I think this might be William Henry Bull in census 1901. No sign of his father:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Moor, Dickleburgh, Depwade, Norfolk, England

William Fish Head Married Male 75 1826 Shoe Maker Dickleburgh, Norfolk, England
Elizabeth Fish Wife Married Female 49 1852 - Gosbeck, Suffolk, England
Robert Donley Boarder - Male 11 1890 - West Ham, Essex, England
William Bull Boarder - Male 7 1894 - West Ham<<<<<<<

Looks like he'd been farmed out as some sort of 'nurse child' following the death of his mother Louisa..

But that one getting baptised says born 21 July and the one we need was born 28 Jan. More confusion!

Maryb.