General Chat

Ex-pats get winter fuel allowance: UK pensioners lose out

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By Sarah Coles, Aug 24, 2012

Filed under: Retirement


Government plans mean that pensioners in the south of England could lose their winter fuel allowance because the weather is too mild - while expat pensioners still coin it in.

So how can this be right?




Temperature test
The government announced plans yesterday to introduce a 'temperature test' for the winter fuel payment.

At the moment if you are over 60, you receive a payment of up to £200 to help meet the higher cost of heating your home over the winter (for families with someone over the age of 80 this can be up to £300). The payment is usually made in November or December, and is paid to everyone regardless of their income or location.


It has long-been contentious because European laws mean that expats who turned 60 before leaving the country, and left after the payment was introduced in 1998, are entitled to receive the allowance. To make matters even more expensive, the European Court of Justice has thrown this out and said that in order to qualify, pensioners only need "a genuine and sufficient link" to the UK. It means around 440,000 expat pensioners get the payment - at a cost of £100 million.

The test is designed to ensure that the payment isn't paid to pensioners sitting on balmy beaches in the sunshine, to avoid wasting the cash on people who don't need it.

Twist
However, in an odd twist, the test will apply in the UK too, which will create a strange situation, where milder parts of the UK may miss out, while ex-pats in relatively warm parts of the world keep receiving the cash. So, for example, in Plymouth, the average low temperature for February is around 41F. This is warmer than Madrid, Rome and Frankfurt at this time of year.

We will have to wait and see how exacting the tests are, and how much of the UK misses out. Ideally, only those areas where their climates are unusually mild, will miss out, and these people should be relatively comfortable in their homes at higher temperatures.


Worst case
In the worst case scenario, the south of England could be shivering this year - with record high fuel bills and no assistance.

Michelle Mitchell, Age UK's Director General, said: "The winter fuel payment is an important income boost for many people on a low state pension, providing a lifeline to many vulnerable older people and allowing them to worry less about their fuel bills. Winter fuel payments are simple to understand and generally do not need to be claimed, avoiding the complexity of means-testing. While the introduction of a temperature test could allay concerns about ex-pats in hot countries receiving the payment, it is important that proposals for change do not complicate the system or result in those in need losing out."

a few years back I recall expressing surprise that ex pats living in warmer climes received winter fuel allowance and came in for a load of flak - apparently it does get cold even in these warmer climes!!! and ex-pats argue that they have paid into the system so why shouldn't they get it :-S

They shouldn't get it because they are not buying their goods/food in the UK and paying VAT which would at least add some funds back into the UK coffers!

Plus don't even start me on NHS tourism with the ex-pats!

in short,

Yes and their pension can be taken with them.....but 99.9 % sure its only if EU countries..

Most of the ex pats where I live don´t qualify for the payment in spite of the fact that they lived, worked, paid taxes etc in Britain for 40 years or more. THey don´t qualify because they left the country & retired abroad before the payment came into being.
Last winter, where I live, the temperature didn´t rise above 10c for more than 2 months. The first falls of snow in Spain are invariably by November & it´s often still snowing in April. It´s a myth that we sit on the terrace sipping cocktails at Christmas.
Don´t know what it´s like in other European countries, but Spanish houses are freezing in winter. They are built to keep the heat out, not the warmth in. They have tiled floors, no central heating, flimsy doors & windows no form of insulation etc. Moving from one room to another in winter is to be avoided at all costs & the bathroom is sheer torture.An ex pat friend used to describe living in his house in winter as being like living in a garage.

I don´t agree that all expats should be paid the winter fuel allowance regardless. There´s nothing wrong with having to qualify, but for those of us who live on the basic state pension, with no pension credits, bus passes etc, it´s a lifesaver especially sice the exchange rate has lost 30% of it´s value over the past couple of years.
Have a go at the rich pensioners in England who claim it & use it for anything but paying their fuel bills.

that's shocking while others struggle to make end meet

when my husband was in hospital
the man in the opposite bed had flow over from Spain for his treatment :-(

Can´t imagine why he would Joy.
In my experience the Spanish NHS is far superior.
can only assume he had no health insurance in Spain, which is illegal if you live here & for State pensioners from other EU countries, they are automatically entitled to everything free, just like a Spanish pensioner, as are their dependants even if the dependants are below pension age.
believe me, pensioners here struggle to make ends meet & not just the ex pat ones.

I have no problem with this for ex-pats within the EU but any criteria for those living in the UK must also apply to ex-pats,

Roy

Exactly what I was trying to say.
The criteria when I first applied for it was that you had to be living in the UK at the qualifying date in order to be eligible.
As it happened, I was, but 3 years down the line, DWP phoned me here in Spain to verify the date I left the UK.
Not unreasonable to check.
What really makes my blood boil is the number of people I know who live here permanently while claiming income support in England. They are often working here for cash,their benefit is paid directly into their English bank accounts & they fly back every 3 or 4 months to confirm that they are still looking for work.

I think thats what they call "Spanish Practices" wisechild,or the Black Economy,thus depriving people who need help of it.**M** :-S

You are absolutely right Merlin.
No wonder there are so many Spanish unemployed when employers can get away with paying very low "black" wages.
the Spanish government has, within the last few days, suddenly realised that the income tax revenue is being seriously depleted by the fact that so many people aren´t working......at least legally.......
They´re not wrong & their answer is to put up VAT& other taxes, which is just compounding the problem because people who were just scraping by before are now unable to cope.

wisechild, If i new of anyone fiddling the system then i would have no problem in reporting them,

Family or friend makes no difference they are still stealing from all who are or have paid in to the system and depriving people who need help and are in genuine need

Roy

As far as i'm concerned anyone who turns their back on this country shouldn't receive any entitlements.

I live in Northumberland where winters can be extreme, so I hope I won't be penalised in anyway.

So what would you do if you were married to someone from another country?
Stay in England & conduct a long distance relationship??
It´s not a case of turning your back on England or anywhere else for that matter.
Anyone who has worked all their lives should be entitled to live where they choose after retirement. They´ve earned that right, just the same as they have earned their pensions& entitlements under European law & personally I feel it´s wrong that people who live outside the EU don´t get their annual increases. They have paid into the system just the same as everyone else & let´s be honest, pensioners tend to have more of a call on services that younger people. If we stayed in England we would be entitled to pension credits, free health care, attendance allowance, housing benefit, council tax benefit, free bus passes etc. We pay for all that out of our basic pensions. Don´t begrudge us 200 per year towards our fuel costs, please. last winter,that paid just one month´s electricity bill. On average we pay over 1.800€ per year for fuel. Not much less than in England.

Roy.
Several attempts have been made to draw the attention of the authorities both here & in England. All that happens is a polite "Thank you for letting us know. We will look into it".

To get back to the OP I thought they were only 'talking' about doing this. I didn'y realise that it was definate.

Well its only a suggestion.

After the next General Election !!........ :-)

Wisechild.

Some of the 'entitlements' you have listed as a UK resident are means tested. Free health care, yes, but within the NHS. Bus passes, yes but I believe that there is a proposal that these will be estimated in future as a benefit of £50.00 per year. Even so if someone is not receiving some of the other benefits you mention even a pensioner has to pay for dental care or spectacles even though an eye test is free, So even if receiving basic pension it depends on any savings that one may have. :-(

I am aware that certain benefits are means tested. I was talking about people who are living on a basic state pension.
Spanish pensioners pay for dental treatment spectacles, eye tests etc. My husband has just had to pay €150 for an eye test & new single lens reading glasses & €100 for a repair to his hearing aid which cost over €2000.00 three years ago.
We don´t spend our life enjoying barbecues on the beach all year. Can´t afford to put petrol in the car to get to the beach.
On the other hand, I don´t imagine life would be any easier in England & I have no problem with accepting that things are as they are for pensioners wherever you live.
I just feel that if there are qualifying criteria for a benefit & you fulfil the criteria, you should recieve the benefit.
It´s no different than the young expats who live here & claim child benefit from the UK or EU citizens who live on benefits in the UK sending money back to their families in their home country.

I find this thread rather interesting.
I have worked full time from the age of 18 and only stopped about 18 months ago just before my 65th birthday. My occupation was as a registered Nurse. I specialised in one of the more difficult part of Dementia which is not only developed by the elderly! The youngest person I cared for was 25 years old with three small children.

Similarly all my family work and I suspect that most people on here have also worked during their life.

So, is it being suggested that because I decided to live in Spain to be near one of my children and some cousins that I should not have my full pension and benefits.... I spend quite a lot of time in the UK, my banks are in the UK, I do not collect any credits etc, our car is always bought in England and tested in England every year.

So Supercrutch, are you telling me I should not have what I contributed to?

As for Spain being hot, well, yes this year has been very hot, but as has already been said the winter is quite truly freezing at times and the houses are very cold. Electric blankets, thick blankets etc are necessary, we even have snow, high winds, and thin walls, the houses are built with only one losd of bricks all around the house not insulated like the majority of homes in the UK.

Our governments over the years have made the decision that we should be part of the Europiean Community, I did not agree with this but had to accept this, but, it does mean that if you move from one country you can claim your pensions etc.

I must say that I have not heard very much about the pensioners who belonged to a very well known high street bank who failed to send out their pension because of a collapse within the computers system......I did not receive mine for 3 months, and thousands of others had to wait longer.!! Not one person was informed the company waited for each individual to contact them!!

Bridget

Sorry if there are any mistakes in the spelling but I am in a rush. :-0 :-)

Thanks Bridget.
I was beginning to think I was a lone voice in this.
The same argument comes up about this time every year.
Hope you & the family are all well & not finding the excessive heat too much of a problem
Marion