General Chat

hi Purple **^*Sparkly*^** Diamond thank you for your reply and the info about sands!! it was very helpful i also had no foot prints etc i was put in a side room and left, then i got told two hours later i could go they gave me no info or anything 5 days later a leaflet landed on my door mat with a little note saying they forgot to give me this leaflet (private ceromonies and comunitie ones) i felt i had been failed by the hospital as the leaflet said i only had a week to decide what to do and if no contact had been know the baby would be cremated, i was in instant shock as it was a saturday and know one answered the phone at the chapel in the hospital so i had to wait till monday luckly there was a delay in picking the dead babies up so i just made the call intime i dont know what i would of done if i couldnt of had a private cerman it just felt to me it was something i had to do for me and my family my perants came down to kent all the way from newcastle and the children seamed to understand abit more that mummy wasnt going to have the baby sister they where expecting to have later in the year the priest was really nice and so was the crematorium we felt the baby should be buried in myy husbands family plot and so she was!! it does help having some where to go and remember her we called her shakira and the children made a nice plack for her which made them feel they helped which aslo helped them

i am really sorry for everyone who has lost their babies and thankful for all the replies and info people has gave me hopefully this will also help other people going though the same thing i have always said its the people that has gone though what you have that gives the best info and help after all how can you tell someone what to do and help them if you dont know what they are going through or if you havent been through yourself

Sorry to hear of your loss.

We lost a baby at 12 weeks and just got on with our lives.

We took it as part of the natural order of things and concluded that there's no point in harping back to what might have been.
We remember the event, but do not celebrate it.

Sorry if that sounds uncaring, but nowdays we seem to get emotional over things that our ancestors took in their stride.

Lady Di's funeral was a typical example. At the end of the day it was just another accident, albeit to someone in the media spotlight. More than eight people a day are killed in similar circumstances in the UK with families who are less able to cope. The thousands of people who went OTT for someone they had only seen on TV or in the papers was ridiculous in my view.

Hi Brian

I think that talking about things and airing your feelings is a very healthy way of dealing with any loss. I believe that bottling things up often causes more problems later on, . I understand that in years gone by talking it through often wasn't the *done thing* however times change and for me, I found the freedom to talk to people about what happened to me immensely helpful. Different strokes for different folks I guess xx

morning sarah,
sorry to hear of your loss, we lost a baby at 12 weeks, but it was a partial misscarraige.
i know how you feel, you'll always remember and the plaque sounds wonderfull
we've had 2 boys since and the one i lost, i hope was a girl... :))) xxx
as for changing the law, to do that they would have to change the abortion law aswell, as you can still have them up to 24 weeks.........:(
sarah concentrate on greiving for now and building your family.... :) xxx
you take care,
kaz xxx

edit,
i was given this site, i hope it can help you & your family.... you can print off certs, & a forum too its a lovely site.. :)
http://babylossandhealing.com/
http://babylossandhealing.com/forums/
http://babylossandhealing.com/certificates.html

hi KathrynB (in.Canada) like i said in the title i wanted other peoples views i have gave mine which i am fully intitled to after all it is a free country guess by your reaction you have had a termanation and regreted it or maybe it was the best thing you did maybe it was right for you but all i tried to say in my previous message is its not for me thats the way i was brought up i never said everyone had the same views why should i with draw my thred if you dont like what some people have to say please leave your coments to yourself and dont read them!! i am not trying to be nasty i am not that type of person i am sorry if i have touched a spot in your life that hurts you i was just giving my point and asked for others which you clearly have problems with! as for your phase dwelling on it, i wouldnt term it as that and can guess i talk for most of the woman that has posted messages on this thread as we did want this baby like all the rest of our children instead of the word dwelling i would term it a greiving or remebering the child we lost as do most people that have gone through the same as us!!

And Brain dont get me wrong i have done the same as you have got on with life because i have had no other choice but to but it still doesnt stop you wondering does it and thinking about your loss maybe you keep it to yourself bottle it up as a lot of people do but does it really help in the long run? The loss doesnt just disappear does it? and if it did surely something must be wrong as its just human nature to feel a huge hole in your life when you lose someone or something close to you!!

Dear Sarah, I havent actually lost anything close to me yet apart from a cat. But I a glad to see the support that you have recieved in threads.

My mum had a pregnancy before i was born in the 60's she found out on the friday that the baby was dead and had to carry all weekend to abort on the monday. She was not allowed any head stone when they buried the child.

But really some thread providers "there is a time and place for your points of view".

I gave you my opinion, Sarah.

My opinion is that your opinions about women who make choices different from your own do not belong in this thread, or anywhere at GR.

I shall now report your post as well. It is unfortunate that you did not choose to take the sensible and polite approach to the situation by keeping your own comments in your thread to the subject of the thread, or accept my proposal that your comments and my response be voluntarily deleted.

Sparrow, if your comment:

'But really some thread providers "there is a time and place for your points of view".'

was directed at Sarah, I agree. There is a time and a place for people to say vile things about the decisions made by women who are strangers to them, and this time and this place are not it.

like i said kathryn i asked for points of views not to be set on like a savage dog

I have to say I read this thread earlier and didn't assume anything about Kathryn B. I don't feel that anything Kathryn said on here was nasty or personal or bitter, or hinted at any previous decisions or regrets.

hi sparrow thank you for your thread i am sorry to hear about your mothers loss this happened to a close friend of mine four times she was then told she couldnt have anymore but she went on to have 3 lovely healthly boys and one girl so goes to show you shouldnt give up hope

It's standard issue for the anti-choice brigade.

Anyone who disagrees with them must be attacked and their character shredded.

Or it must be pretended, in the case of a woman, that she had an abortion which she chose out of her own selfishness, and she now lives with the huge and inconsolable regret she feels -- and her anger at those who seek to control other women is just a bad psychological reaction to her own guilt and shame.

No decent person makes such comments to or about a person about whom she knows nothing.

broggy so how do you explian this?But the loss is yours and your family's, and not a loss of a member of our society, our human community, because the person you are grieving is a person who never was. That is the very sad thing for your family, that there was someone who could have been and now will not be. how selfish dont you think???

kathryn if you read that part again you will see i said that some people may have regeted it and others may think its the best thing they have done!!

Sarah, yes a friend of mine was told by many academic gynies that she could not have children, she has three boys. My mum did not give up she went on the have some one really special, me. Our pets think i am very special around feed time.

there is always light at the end of the tunnel sparrow as for the pets at feeding time i know the feeling cant move in the kitchen for the cat as soon as she hears the cupboard door open no matter if its for her or not!! lol

right sarah, kathryn,...
read these posts, both of you have misunderstood each others opinions, my post is in middle, going on about changing the abortion time...........
please make up......... life is too short :),
nite xx


Sarah, you loss is a very painful one - the loss of a future you hoped to have, that now will not happen.

But the loss is yours and your family's, and not a loss of a member of our society, our human community, because the person you are grieving is a person who never was. That is the very sad thing for your family, that there was someone who could have been and now will not be.

In fact, it is thought that about half of all fertilized eggs -- *potential* people -- do not develop into full-term pregnancies and births. Most, women (perhaps luckily) never know about the loss, it is so early. Some are lost after women and their families have already begun to plan and dream for their futures with a new family member.

It would be perfectly appropriate for you and your family, and friends if you choose, to hold a ceremony of whatever kind would help you in your loss.

But to answer your question about changing laws: no "official" recognition of that loss as a death of a person would be appropriate. That would put government in a position of monitoring women's bodies, so that if we had a late period, an investigation would have to be held to decide whether a death certificate should be issued ... or if we had a late-term miscarriage, an investigation would have to be held to decide whether we had "killed" our fetus. That's not something most of us would want to happen.

I was conceived during the term of my mother's first pregnancy, which ended in miscarriage. If that pregnancy had been successful, a healthy baby might have been born and lived to today ... but I would not have been born. I know that if my mother were given the chance to change history, she could never decide -- avoid the pain of that loss and have the child she never had, or not have me? Sometimes nature just makes those decisions for us, and our lives turn out as they do.

As you know from what other women say, miscarriage is an unfortunately common experience. It is truly important that your family and friends recognize the painful loss you have had. I'm not being one of those people who says "it's all for the best, dear", because of course it isn't, it's horrible. Be sure to take the time you need to grieve, and be sure to talk to people who understand your loss and won't try to minimize it and hurry you back to "normal".

If I may offer some unsolicited advice, make sure your other children don't absorb your grief, which they are too young to really understand. And most importantly, keep communication open with your husband.

morning sarah,
sorry to hear of your loss, we lost a baby at 12 weeks, but it was a partial misscarraige.
i know how you feel, you'll always remember and the plaque sounds wonderfull
we've had 2 boys since and the one i lost, i hope was a girl... :))) xxx
as for changing the law, to do that they would have to change the abortion law aswell, as you can still have them up to 24 weeks.........:(
sarah concentrate on greiving for now and building your family.... :) xxx
you take care,
kaz. xxx

hi kazz sorry for your loss i do agree to the abortion law been changed but only people who have felt the loss of a baby would know how it feels to loss a baby many people regret having abortions after it has took place i was always brought up with the thinking that abortions where wrong after all if you fall pregnant but could of provented it from happening you should take responcability for the child and your actions i feel pregnant with my first child at 15 had her when i was sixteen i could never of had an abortion then or now! the only way i would consider an abortion is if there was a medical reason eg the baby was going to suffer or i was going to die even then i dont think i could live with the thought of killing my baby that has to be worse than having a misscarrage surely!! also why termanate a childs life because your thinking about your own needs!! surely it would be better for the child to be adopted to a family that has always wanted a child an cant! ( my sister cant have children down to having no womb but would love children i was going to carry a child for her after we had this one but now feel there is a hole in our lives and dont think i could she understands but i still cant help feeling sorry for her it breaks my heart known she cant when she is desprate to have one of her own yes there is adoption like i said but its not the same as your own if there is a away but many people dont even produce eggs so where does that leave them after all there is so many people wanting a baby as young as possible so would this not be a better way around getting away from your responcabilities rather than killing the unwanted child?thank you for the sit

To be honest Sarah no I don't think it's selfish.

I feel for you and indeed for anyone who has last a child. I have been incredibly lucky to have had 2 pregnancies which produced 3 healthy babies.

I don't make light of your loss or anyone else's.

I think that if you have lost a baby it is right and healthy that you remeber it/him/her and that your family remembers the lost one. The earlier suggestions about a family ceremony, or a plaque were just what I would have wanted were I ever in that position.

But I don't think that a change to the law would be passed and in a way it doesn't really change anything. If you lost a baby at 7 or 8 or 10 weeks you might not even know it ever existed. And most of society definitely wouldn't know, and perhaps it therefore wouldn't be appropriate for "society" to produce a death certificate, which is what the original question was about.

That of course doesn't mean that that life is any less precious, or any less missed by the family who mourn.

night kaz and ya right about life been to short too