General Chat

Dear Tania,
I too, do not think that the facilty to have a proper organized medical termination should be abolished, even though I dearly wish that there should be no need for women to have one in the first place.
I would hate to see back street abortion clinics. and women drinking gin and jumping off tables, or whatever. that would be tragic to say the least.
.
The reason you may not have come across many people who regret it is, that very few women admit to it.....there is a strong sense of shame...that goes with this procedure...and its long term consequences

I also concede, that you may see things from a different prespective/experience than I do.....
as for the thousands of women who live with regret, I am certain that of the 169,000+ a year that was quoted yesterday by someone, that there is a reasonable percent of those who do/have thought they made the wrong choice..
out of the many women I have spoke to, I have not met one who does not pine, and grieve for that missing child....
.
sitting in front of two doctors, and convincing them that you want an abortion,when you are not thinking straight does not constitute councelling in my eyes...
I dont want to come across as arguementive, as people know on here, that I always stay out of rows etc, I just feel that I need to speak up for the silent sufferers......

please excuse my spellings.
regards
cmd xxx

well I concede after 16 yrs of working with women from their first pregnancy test I havent met thousands and thousands of women who regret there abortions nor have I met anyone who wasnt counselled before hand..
so I just cant really relate to your facts cmd.
As I did say earlier though I will always support abortion law to remain as it is,as to take it away will be a disaster for women now and in the future

dear Penny, with musical/erou bits,
I really do hope everthing goes well. there will be set backs, but sometimes miracles do happen, one of my nephews was only 2lb prem, and now 20 years on he's 6'2'' and a lovely lad, he has had some difficlties. but those are not physical,
give you friend my very best wishes...
love cmdx

The other week my friends waters broke at 23 weeks - she went to hospital & was told if she went into labour there was nothing that the hospital would do as up to 24 weeks it is classed as a miscarriage!!!!!


The baby hung on for 3 more weeks & is now being treated as a human - in a special care unit !

Dear Tania,
I do apprieciate that there are people who feel they may not be able to cope,
But I know for a fact, that when you go for your consultation, you are not offered councilling before the procedure......
there are thousands and thousands of women, who would have coped with the child. but panicked at the time.and did the knee-jurk reaction, and have spent all their lives, regretting it.and suffering extreme depression,because no-one told them things might work out alright..
I know, because I have spoken to some of these , women, and I have not met one who would not put the clock back,
I have said before, although I am very anti-abortion, I will defend anyones right to do what they want with their bodies..........
I have experience of very premature babies being born in my family. so I realize the trauma of these little souls struggling for survival, when down the corridor they are left to die..
24 weeks is far to late, by that time, the mother has to be either induced to give birth, or it is destoyed inside her, then 'sucked' out of body. dont tell me thats not more distressing than just going a few more weeks, and having it anyway, then give it up for adoption.....I have three adopted nephews.(who are real brothers) their mother made the mistake at least three times, and still gave the babies up.... thank God they were not aborted....
my sisters friend has two grown up children, who she managed to get to adult-hood without starving them...
.
with respect Tania, let me point out what is happening in todays society, we have perfectly good pregnanies being aborted because their parent/parents, think they cannot afford to keep and rear these children, because they cannot afford to give up work, or afford child care, or cope in general..with paying their mortgage, and bills....
.
Then we have another set of society that are having kids 'willy nilly' several kids, by several fathers, and getting, houses, and benefits, and help all along the way.....Dont tell me it not true.... come and live where I do and you will see them in droves....

Then when some of the earlier group decide that natures clock is ticking, and its time to have a family, they then find they need medical help, or intervention,

just my opinion, but based on some facts.......
xxx cmd xx

YES to 16 weeks
vivienne

Well cmd
Taking in the thread about the poor little girl who was abused and starved to death maybe the 2 doctors saw something in your sisters friends mental health that made them feel it was a wise option.
If the medical proffession had to section everyone thats was selfish or personality disordered they would be very busy
Remembering of course that just because a minority abuse something dosent mean everyone does.
The majority of women who have abortions are good people who for whatever reason which is personal to them cannot have a baby.
as I said before my position is not about the rights or wrongs of abortion it is about taking away something that will have catastrophic effects on women.......,and children if they are forced to have them.
It is probably one of the most important advances in the health of women this century so I dont ever want to see it legislated to the point of being gone which if it changes will slowly happen .
As for being refused,beyond 12 weeks actually most are,as you will note the significant drop in numbers at that
point

Dear tania,
If a women has to convince two doctors, how come some of them have had several abortions, in which case they would have had to have convinced two doctors several times!!!
I would have thought the doctor should realize by then its contraception...
my sisters friend has had three abortions, did she have to convince them three times, that her life, mental health, etc was in danger....If i was her doctor/doctors. and thought she was that unstable, I would have her sectioned!!!!
How many women get ''refused'' a termination, on medical or mental grounds???? I have never heard of one .

24 weeks is far too late......I am going to be a Gran for the first time and have just seen the pictures of the 20 week scan......THAT IS MY GRANDCHILD....fingers; toes; everything complete - if anything happened now (God forbid that it did) I would mourn

I believe that women should have every choice - it is their body - it is their choice to bear a child - 24 weeks is too late

I'm very much pro choice and I have always felt that up until life is viable outside of the womans body then the decision about whether she is equipped to be a mother........the hardest job in the world......is hers and hers alone.

The trouble is now with all the advances being made with prem babies the line is getting blurred for me xx

I am very sad it hasnt been reduced,


Its wrong to end the life of a healthy baby at a viable stage, end off,


Caz xxxxxxx

I am not religious and just an ordinary bloke but to me abortion is murder except where pregnacy threatens the life of the mother.

Abortion is symbolic of the current 'throw away society'

Here the cut-off is 20 3/7 weeks. That still allows for (deliberate or accidental) mis-calculation of dates, and thus often results in a very preemie live birth.
I won't debate the issue, except to say that 20 3/7 may already be too long a time.
It's a horrible decision for anyone to have to face, and can have long-standing effects for the potential preemie, and lifetime emotional effect for the mother.

Tania,Some very good points you have made.

I still feel the same about abortion,and will never feel any differently,but those are my own personal feelings,nothing to do with religion I have to add.

I would never judge a woman who decides to have an abortion,thats their own choice and something they have to live with.

YES
The fewer weeks the better, unless for definate medical reasons
Janet

My personal opinion is it should be cut to 20 weeks, a baby is viable after this time even if it is only 1% survival rate.

There has to be exceptions to this for medical reasons but asides from that it should be reduced.

I wonder why the girls have such a significantly better prognosis than the boys ? That's really odd.

Poor babies, poor parents and poor doctors. What an utterly heart wrenching decision to have to make xx

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/health/17baby.html?em&ex=1208577600&en=ebc17f43acd2c2df&ei=5087%0A

Thanks for that Tania. Definately another way of looking at things and food for thought xx

Muffy all babies are assessed for there likely viability at birth.
If the baby is over 500g it has a far better prognosis than a smaller baby.
Things have changed lately not because of the abortion laws but because many practitioners think we have pushed the boat out too far.
I dont have the exact figures in my head but of all babies born under 24 weeks less than half will survive to leave the unit and that figure is significantly lower for 23 and 22 weekers .
I think 22 weekers would be lucky to be 10%
These infants suffer an enormous amount of pain over many weeks and often have to overcome fairly catastrophic infections lung collapses and other very unpleasant things.
Of the ones that survive a good half have a major or moderate disability,and these are higher at 22 23 weeks.
Its great for the parents that have a well child but at what price for all the others.
We discuss all of these things now and many people chose not to resusitate there babies,because it is simply not the kindest thing to do,particularly if the baby makes no great respiratory effort