Genealogy Chat

My husband's grandfather was George Harris Ryder on his marriage cert, father Harris (Ryder deceased) Given his age I worked out that he was born around1874 in Leeds. We have just located a cousin not seen since childhood, and she says that while searching through her mother's things as a child she came across a document or paper with the name Lazarus on it. Having been caught 'snooping' the next time she looked it wasn't there! As I have made no headway with Ryder I tried FreeBMD and found a George Harris Lazarus, b1872 in Leeds and sent for his birth cert. His father was Harris Ryder, mother Harriet Elizabeth formerly Wilson. The only Harris Lazarus I can find of about the right age is on the 1841 census in Leeds with his mother, Betsey Lazarus, but nothing after that until the marriage to Harriet, if it's the same person. Can anyone shed any light or make any suggestions as to where I go from here? How would I find out about his change of surname?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Maggie

Marriages Dec 1865

Glover Sarah Gaunt Leeds 9b 649
>>Lazarus Harris Leeds 9b 649
Ward Benjamin Leeds 9b 649
>>Wilson Harriet Elizabeth Leeds 9b 649
Wood Benjamin Leeds 9b 649


I'm getting confused here overwhat are surnames and forenames, ...!

Gwyn

Possible siblings:

Births Dec 1869 (>99%)
Lazarus Thomas William D Leeds 9b 390

Births Dec 1871 (>99%)
LAZARUS Jane Ann Leeds 9b 403

You're confused? I'm thinking of retiring to a home for the permanently perplexed!! Yes, this is the marriage between Harris Lazarus, and Harriet Elizabeth Wilson. I've got the cert, and his father's name is Maurice, occupation 'Hawker', her father's occupation is 'Heckler'. As the marriage and all other history is in Leeds I wonder if these occupations have something to do with the mills? I suspect that at least 'Heckler' is not what we would think today, although it's possible that the 'Hawker' is the same.

What is the father's occupation on the birth cert?

Thanks for possible siblings. There seem to have been a number of Lazarus families in Leeds at the time, but these births would seem to be about the right time, wouldn't they? I can send for the certificates, anyway, just to check. It would also be interesting to know if they changed their surname at any time in the future.

Marriages Jun 1896

Charlton Annie Carpenter Leeds 9b 953
Grant James Smith Leeds 9b 953
>>Lazarus Harriet Elizabeth Leeds 9b 953
LAZARUS Harriet Elizaneth Leeds 9b 953
Mann George Leeds 9b 953

Harris Lazarus was a cloth dresser on his own marriage cert, and on George Harris Lazarus's birth cert he was down as a cloth finisher, but 30 years later on GHR's marriage cert he was a cabinet maker (deceased), which I have to admit rather throws a spanner into the works. It's just odd that everything else fits perfectly. It's possible that he changed occupation to make ends meet. (GHR's new father in law was a cloth dyer). Help!

Thanks for the marriage of Harriet Lazarus, Gwyn. On 1901 census there is George Mann, wife Harriet, a couple of Mann children, and his stepson, George Ryde b1873! George Harris Ryder was married in Sept 1901. The plot thickens! Plus I can find no death for Harris Lazarus. He was deceased before George's marriage.

Same family, possibly Thomas and Jane would tie in with the Lazarus births:

1881 England Census

about George H. Mann
Name: George H. Mann
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Harriet E.
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds

Civil Parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address: 1 Amber Street
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 74
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Mann 2
George Mann 37
George H. Mann 8
Harriet E. Mann 34
Jane Mann 10
Louisa Mann 7
Mary Elizabeth Mann 5
Thomas Mann 11

Hi Potty,
Sadly I've just found a George Henry Mann, b1872 in Hunslet, which all adds to my confusion, but will still check out Thomas and Jane Lazarus and see if that gets me anywhere. Thanks to both you and Gwyn for your help. It's so good to feel someone can come up with other suggestions when you're up against a brick wall! The other problem is that the mother on 1881 census was Harriet E Mann, but Harriet E Lazarus didn't marry George Mann until 1896. It could of course be that they were living together but not married if, for instance, Harris Ryder had de-camped but not died, so she couldn't re-marry but needed someone to help bring up the children. Don't know how you sort out these anomalies.