Genealogy Chat

I have my Gt grandfather William Palmer married to Ellen Lloyd in 1887 (I have the cert). He is 28 and she is 24 therefore, it is estimated that he should be born in 1859 and she in 1863.

On the 1901 census, he is shown as 45 and 35 on the 1891. She is 40 and 28 respectively. This means that he was born in 1856 and she 1861/63.

Now some very kind GR members traced william in Astley Abbotts, Cleobury Mortimer, Shropshire on the 1861 census age 8 (therefore born 1853). He is living with his mother Ann Howells and stepfather William Howells, Thomas Howells and Elisha Howells. Is this the correct one?

On the marriage cert it states his father as William Palmer also and he was living in Aston Botterell, Shropshire.

Now, my next stage is to find his birth. But there are several William Palmers in Shropshire, 1 in 1852 Cleobury Mortimer, 1 in 1852 Ludlow, 1 in 1852 in Tenbury, 1 in 1854 Wellington, Salop, 1 in 1859 Shrewsbury, 1 in 1859 Market Drayton and 1 in 1860 Whitchurch.

Which one do I go for? Giving that I have his birth between 1853 and 1859?

I have looked for Ann & William Snr on an 1851 cenus, but the ages do not match up with that of Ann Howells on the 1861 census. (Ann was married to william Howells Mar 1/4 1859 Bridgnorth).

Could anyone give me advice as to what I should do now?

many thanks
Dee

As birth registration wasn't compulsory until 1875, his birth may not have been registered..........

What did the marriage cert say about his father's occupation?

Reg

Hi Reggie

It just says Labourer

My eyes must be playing tricks.....I can't see hide nor hair of them in 1891 or 1901.

Reg

I'm having same prob as Reg - could you give us the census info for 1891/1901 please, Dee - or any clue as to whether they were mistranscribed.

It's useful for us to be able to see all the info you have so that we can make a more informed decision re your queries and it'll help us with our searches.

Thanks - Athena

Sorry Reggie thats my fault, I didn't make it clear

In 1891 the couple were at milletts, Neenton, Bridgnorth, Salop.

In 1901 they had moved to 24 Coven St, Wolverhampton.

I think I have William age 23 as a Farmers servant indoors at Farlow Shropshire on the 1881 census but cannot be certain due to the age differences.

1901 = 45 (B1856)
1891 = 35 (B1856)
1881 = 23 (B1858) (which would just about tie in with his age of 28 on 21st Feb 1887 when he married Ellen Lloyd).

On 1861 I think I have him as age 8 (B1853) at Dunval Cottage, Broseley Rd, Astley Abbotts, Cleobury Mortimer.

Dee - just noticed on the marriage entries that William and Ellen married in Cleobury Mortimer - the same place that you have the 8yr old William residing on the 1861 census. Could just be coincidence but it may well be the same person.

Athena

Dee - was Ellen calling herself Nellie or something similar as I still can't find them by searching on William Palmer with spouse name Ellen in the areas you've stated.

Athena

1901...........for clarity

Name: William Palmer
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Colgate, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England


Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 244
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Palmer 4
Beatrice Palmer 13
Edward Palmer 6
Ellen Palmer 40
Frederick Palmer 10
William Palmer 45 Occ: Corporation Carter
William Palmer 11


The two elder children were born Aston Botterell, Shropshire
Reg

Athena

Thanks for your help.

Yes, this is the one have been working on. However, Ann is married to William Howells. Now either, Ann was widowed and had married mr howells afterwards, or Palmer may be her maiden name and William was named after her (seems I need to get a copy of her marriage to Mr Howells to see if it has palmer as a previous married name or her maiden name). It is the fact that William has stated his father as William Palmer on his marriage cert which has thrown me. If this is true, William Snr must have died prior to her 2nd marriage (presuming there wasn't a divorce). OR.... has William given his step-father's name but put him as Palmer to save face??

Yes Reggie

Thats the one, however, I find that each census gives a different birthplace!

Reggie

Just noticed that you have William's occupation as a Corporation Carter (I thought it said Corporation Banker?)

on 1891, it shows Annie Palmer and Violet Palmer (these were Ellen's children before marriage to William as I have found their two births as Lloyd)

Dee - I find it interesting to note that William Howells was also a Carter by trade - which makes it an even stronger connection that your William is the one found on the 1861 census.

So we need to find out how Wm Howells is related to your William - real father or step father.

Athena

1891...........It really would have made life easier if you'd told us about the mistranscription............


Name: Beatrice Palmes
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: Aston Botterell, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Neenton
Ecclesiastical parish: Neenton
Town: Neenton
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England


Registration district: Bridgnorth
Sub-registration district: Chetton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Palmes 7
Beatrice Palmes 3
Ellen Palmes 28
Leonard Palmes 2
Violet Palmes 4
William Palmes 35 b. Delbury. Shropshire

If they only married in 1887......where does Annie fit in?

Reg

If it helps you trace the 1891 others in household were:

Annie Palmer 7
Violet Palmer 4
Beatrice Palmer 3
& Leonard Palmer

Here is the marriage of William Howells to Ann Palmer - so yes, it was her second marriage, Dee:

Name: William Howells
Year of Registration: 1859
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Bridgnorth
County: Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 888 (

Sorry Reggie

It was passed to me by another GR member and I hadn't noticed it

What I might add, is that Delbury is an abreviation for Diddlebury (so the Shropshire record offices tell me)

Dee - did you see my post re the marriage entry?

I think this answers your initial queries as it proves that the family on the 1861 census is the right one and that your William was, therefore, born circa 1852/3.

As regards finding William Palmer's birth cert, I would start with the one for Cleobury Mortimer. There are, actually two - 1851 and 1852 - I'd start with the 1852 because there may have been a previous son that died in infancy.

Name: William Palmer
Year of Registration: 1852
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Cleobury Mortimer
County: Herefordshire, Shropshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 513


Regards

Athena