Genealogy Chat

Spoke to a lovely lady at Devizes/Marlborough records office who went and looked THERE AND THEN, WHILE I WAS ON THE PHONE! She was able to confirm that Jemima and Kezia were indeed twins (Jemima the older by 10 mins)-mystery solved, although still no reason other than human error for her not being on GRO......nice to know it wasn't my research at fault !!

Thanks everyone,
Petrina



Original message:
Hi all,
Do you think I am missing a twin birth?

I have my great grandmothers birth cert:

"Kezia Gough",father Henry Gough,mother Mary Jane Gough, formerly Hillman,living in Marlborough

born 20th Oct 1874 "8h 10m a.m." (Now I have read threads that say time doesn't always equal twins...but....)

1881 census gives 2 six-year olds at home KEZIA and JEMIMA
1891 16 yr old Kezia working away from home
16 yr old "JANE" living at home
1894 marriage of "JEMIMA JANE" Gough to Joseph Packer
1903 Joseph Packer pops up as witness to Kezia's marriage (Kezia and Jemima living near each other in London 1901)

So why can't I find a birth for Jemima, Jemima Jane, or plain Jane Gough to fit with her age on censuses?
I've looked all through 1873,1874,1875 in case they were just near in age, not twins.Nothing!
If twins, shouldn't they be next to each other on the regisiter anyway?? I've even looked all through the "G"'s in case it was handwritten later- there's a lot of those in that register!

Henry had 3 wives and at least a dozen kids,(so far!) and everything and everyone has been registered properly, always spelled "Gough" not Goff etc, tho' I've checked that too! So, where is Jemima??

By the way, my daughter looked up 'Kezia' as a name and the site said " one of the 3 daughters of Job, so popularly used in cases of multiple births, with JEMIMA and Keren"!!!!!!!!!! How frustrating!

Any ideas?
Petrina

Anyone, please?

Sorry Petrina, I have checked the Dec quarter for 1874, and as you say there is no entry for Jemima/Jane in Marlborough.

Is it the GRO register that you have searched? Maybe Jemima's registration was missed when the index was compiled. Have you contacted Marlborough Register Office? They could perhaps look in the original register. Kezia birth cert should have a number on it, so they would only need to look either side.

Thanks both-
I use Ancestry, Potty, so it shows me the register page.....for the whole country!! You're right, I'll check with Marlborough direct, thanks again!

Hi Petrina,
Do you know if Jemima/Jane married. I ask because I recently found that a relative of mine called HARRIS was registered ALICE and only when he married did his sister and brother in law have to produce a 'proclamation of a statutory declaration' to have the birth cert ammended.

Joan

Silly me ! Course you know Jemima married. Do you have the marriage cert ?
Joan

Hi Joan,
No, I'm too mean to pay for sibling certs!! Maybe when I've exhausted my direct line....
(can see her on censuses tho' with her husband and even after his death remarrying.)
It would just add a bit of colour to know if grtgma was a twin, doesn't stop me looking back- in fact her ancestors are lovely to find, all baptised in same church etc, that's why it's frustrating that Jemima's not on birth record.
But, take your point, her marriage cert would tell me if same father as Kezia, wouldn't it?- after all I suppose she could be "adopted"??

Petrina

The marriage cert would as you say confirm or not the same father's name.
Also as I found out the ammendment on my Harris's birth cert was written on the cert on the right hand side.

Have you found the baptism records for Kezia and Jemima ?
Good luck, will watch the thread, Joan

If this was mine I would shell out another £7 for the marriage cert.
It MIGHT give you clues?

Marriages Dec 1894 (>99%)
------------------------------------------

Gough Jemima Jane Marlbro' 5a 168
Packer Joseph Marlbro' 5a 168

Joan- Sadly, the baptisms stop just before 1878, tho' this is just what I found online, haven't made it to the records office yet. (By this time Henry was on wife 3, all previous kids on earlier church records, each wife barely cold before next one roped in, fascinating stuff!)
'Still' - (how do you do that with your letters?!)
yes, that's her, I'm asking for "certificate money" for my birthday, so maybe solve the mystery then. They should do gift vouchers at GRO!!
mind you, I still don't understand how, IF they are twins, they aren't next to each other on the Ancestry record......

Petrina

Petrina

Go to ....
'Start'...then
All progs...
Accessories...
System tools...
Character map...
microsoft Sans Seriff...

§èé ? ™ lol

Petrina

The Ancestry record is scan of the GRO index. The Index was compiled from copies of the certificates sent to the GRO from all the local registrars.

There are several reasons why a entry isn't there:
Birth not registered - don't think so in this case because of the time being noted.

Certificate not sent or lost in transit - again don't think so in this case as Kezia's is there.

Person compiling the index just missed entering it.

By the way, you do order your certs direct from the GRO, don't you?

I do order from GRO- Why??

Just wanted to make sure you are getting them from the cheapest place!

I have just looked at the image and notice it is typed. I seem to remember seeing somewhere that some of the handwritten indexes were later typed. Possible that happened in this case, and the person typing missed the entry?

I have an instance in my family where exactly the same name, district, vol No and page appear next to each other. I am pretty sure there were two people with the same name born in the same place at almost the same time but how do I order both certs? They aren't direct line, so like you, I am waiting for the lottery to come up!

Thanks Potty, this particular record is littered with "extra" handwritten ones at bottom of pages, so I'm thinking not a good sign...

and thanks everyone- it always helps to talk things through when you've been going in circles.
Plus, while I've been on I actually helped someone else!!! Have changed my nickname to "not so new now" in honour! And had a giggle at some of the causes of death....

leaving board now, before my son expires from lack of computer usage, which he insists is definitely a possible cause of death for a 21st century relative!!

Petrina

nudged to show the mystery solved!

Thats great news Petrina, a simple phone call and mystery solved! Register offices can be very helpful.

That's great. Petrina. Just goes to show the indexes are infallable! Now if I can just find two of my greatgrandfathers' births......

Petrina, So glad you found your missing twin ; mystery solved !
Best wishes Joan