Genealogy Chat

Thankyou all for your help and Patricia, particularly for her patience.

I was so desperate to knock down one of my brick walls that I got a bit carried away.

M. Steer

Margaret

Sorry it wasn't who'd you'd like it to have been.

If you look at the last page 3200 in the record you'll find names of his mother, brothers & sister; his wife and two son, date of marriage, church, names of witnesses.

James was well travelled, India, South Africa, France during WW1 - award at least four medals and a number of clasps.

The medical sheets are always interesting - GSWs, STDs

I just wish my ancestors had records as detailed as these

Good luck in your search

some Army records are available from the National Archives i got my grtx5 grandfathers records thro the site he was in the Army from 1825-1849 came out on a pension .so was a chelsea pensioner .

I put his name in search and up he popped. I requested an estimate for copies and paid the £10 min charge. an email comfirming the transaction took me to a link to confirm the order and about 10 days later I got a copy of his full Army career by post

Shirley

Patricia, thankyou so much!

I've just been going through 'all the other pages', (finally found them) - fascinating!

He's obviously not my Gt.Gt.Gt.Grandfather. A relative, certainly.

I did think it odd that the 'enlistment form' kept referring to Her Majesty - if my history is correct there was a King in 1809, maybe I'm wrong.

Many thanks,

M. Steer

Sorry

His age should be 20 10 months
height 5ft 4 8/10

etc...

Small brown stain left loin

Margaret

These documents are commonly known as the WW1 Pension records

Margaret

Sorry its definately 1899

I take it you're using Ancestry to look at this record

Go the the next page 3169 - by clicking on the next Green arrow

You'll get a discription of James

Age 20 11 month
5ft 4 3/4

and further down the page - the date again

3rd January 1899

Ann, what WWl papers?

I'm intrigued.


M. Steer

Patricia,

I've used a magnifying glass - it's definitely 1809.

The 180 is printed the 9 is hand written.

You mention 'first page' - I've only got one page (on Ancestry) where are you getting the rest from?

I really do appreciate the time you're taking with this.

M. Steer

Margaret

Please respond to my earlier post

15/10/2007 16:55:32
Margaret

Sorry to disappoint you but the enlistment date is 1899

Do you still want me to look through the document?


Thanks

Thought it was odd that someone who enlisted in 1809 was mixed in with WW1 papers!

Margaret

We are looking at the same document

At the bottom of the first page it says
Bedford 3rd January 1899

I think you've misread the 9 as 0

Margaret,

I had no idea that the "Short service" concept stretched back that far!

Even until recent decades, many employers had a system whereby they would dangle the carrot of a "short service payment" in front of their younger employees, after ~9 yrs service. This is basically them being permitted to get all their pension contributions paid back to them as a (not inconsiderable) lump sum at a time of life where they may be considering a career-change anyway.

Most would take the money and run because, after 10 years' service, the pension contributions are locked in until the annuity becomes due. With all the uncertainties about expected lifespan, "jam today" wins out over "jam tomorrow".

The employer thus wriggles out of any risk of having to pay far more out to a long-lived retired person than they had ever paid into the scheme.

The top document is an aide memoir so that the first thing the pension administrator sees upon opening the file, having received a chancer's written attempt to claim a non-existent benefit, is a clear notice that they have no entitlement. No need to read any further into their record.

I'm probably behind the times but I gather that the Armed services, to this day, get people to initially sign up for 9 years, with the option to extend when the time comes. A vestige of these old rules perhaps. (The pension scheme rules will probably be 2 yrs' minimum, these days, in line with other employers).


Doesn't help your query much but I thought you might be intrigued by the background stuff.


M

Patricia, I have 'saved' a copy of the document to file. I would send it to you if I only knew how.

M. Steer

This James saw service in South Africa, WW1

Margaret

Sorry - but I thin you have the wrong James.

The James I'm looking at is on page 3168

On the front page it says joined 3rd January 1899

Is this the same as your looking at - his record then goes on for the next 31 page

Patricia, there's something odd going on here.

He was dead in 1899.

You obviously have a different document to me - I'd be very interested to know which Document you have.

Thanks,

M. Steer

Margaret

Sorry to disappoint you but the enlistment date is 1899

Do you still want me to look through the document?

Margaret

There are 32 pages for James b abt 1789 its not just the front page

I'll take a look and get back to you - I may be sometime

Patricia, I've not explained myself properly.

I accidentally came across this document on Ancestry. It's just one sheet of paper. I assume it's authentic.

It's dated 3rd January 1809.

The document is entitled Short Service. (Army Form B.265)

If you want to look (and can find it) the recruit is James Saywell from Croxton, Cambs.

Thanks,

M. Steer