Genealogy Chat

I've had a 'brick wall' with one branch of my tree for ages.

It's complicated, not least because both families had similar names - Saywell/Sewell. Allowing for local dialect etc., it appears that on occasions a Saywell was called a Sewell and vice versa.

Even with Census Returns, Birth & Marriage Certificates, I'm stuck with one of my Gt.Gt.Grandfathers.

I'm beginning to doubt my own findings!

If I start again how do I disregard/forget all the information I have?

M. Steer

Margaret, you may remember my "Thomas Cooke begat Thomas Cooke" situation, a wall that stood for 34 months, with help it has recently been breached.

I speak of this only because it was going over and over information held and sideways research, that eventually it was overcome.

My advice would be never to discard but disprove before setting aside...just in case!

Best regards, Bob

Bob, everything I have tells me I'm right (except that the names sometimes change).

Robert, the Saywell/Sewell families were related. My Gt.Granadfather was a Saywell, he married a Sewell.

It's my Gt.Grandmother's Father that I'm having trouble with - whether he's known as a Saywell or a Sewell (he should be Sewell) I can't find him.

M. Steer

Margaret, Obviously I don't know what year span, but have you searched for him with both surnames but using his wife or childrens christian names.

Bob

Bob,

According to my Gt.Grandmother's Birth Certificate (1857) -Father - William Sewell. Mother - Julia Ann Sewell, formerly Splevins.

According to Gt.Gt. Grandparents Marriage Certificate - William Saywell m. July Anna Spleving. 1844.


Not only do I have a problem with Gt.Gt. Grandfather's surname but Gt.Gt.Grandmother's surname is also questionable.

M. Steer

..is this them, as you haven't given a location.
1851 England Census
about Julia Anne Sewell
Name: Julia Anne Sewell
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Alney, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Croxton
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Caxton
Sub-registration district: Caxton
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Anne Sewell 6
Julia Anne Sewell 26
William Sewell 32

Bob, thankyou for taking the time and trouble.

I can't stay on-line any longer - I have to go!

Will reply, in more detail, tomorrow.

Thankyou.

M. Steer

Sorry I had to rush off mid-stream yesterday.

Yes Bob, that is them on 1851 Census. Both the Saywell and Sewell families were in the Cambs./Hunts. area.

Obviously, I don't have a Birth Certificate for William so can only hazard a guess at when he was born but his Marriage Certificate states that he was 'of full age'. It also states that his Father was James Saywell and one of the Witnesses (presumably his Brother) was James Saywell Jnr.

I'm convinced that he is a Sewell but if all records have him and his forebears as Saywell I'm well and truly stumped.


M. Steer

Robert, funny that you should ask that question.

No he didn't sign nor did his witness - both made their 'mark'. His wife, however, apparently, signed her name but on her Daughter's Birth Certificate, made her 'mark. Maybe just some slightly arrogant cleric or registrar. Odd thing is, a number of my, definite, Saywell forebears were Parish Clerks, so I presume that they would have had a certain level of literacy.

As for my Splevins/Spleving family - that's another 'brick wall'!

M. Steer

Margaret, just got back from London, looked at your thread, found this, you may have it already, but it is helping me build a picture.

I will be watching Rugby tonight but have your quest for spare time next week.

Bob

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download

WILLIAM SAYWELL Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 08 JUN 1817 Croxton, Cambridge, England



Parents:
Father: JAMES SAYWELL Family
Mother: ROSANNA

...this as well, the oval ball calls sorry!

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download

WILLIAM SAYWELL Pedigree
Male Family

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: JULY ANNA SPLEVING Family
Marriage: 25 JUN 1844 Croxton, Cambridge, England

Sometimes you are just not going to sort out surname spelling.

The 'exactness' of spelling is a modern phenomena. People in the 19th century & before didn't worry how their names were written. Most of them had very few occassions to write it.

As for making a mark I've read on threads before that people who were quite literate would make their mark instead of signing.

Ozi.

Thread info only........Parish Records as microfisched, normally have only child name, parents named father and mothers christian name, fathers surname, if you are lucky, fathers occ. even more will be of the county, that means they were living there.

Make a visit to the LDS, it is worth while.

Bob

Thankyou all for your comments.

I've been double checking all my data on William just in case I'd got something wrong.

On every Census he is Sewell/Sewel as is his Father.

On the Baptism Index he is Saywell.

Marriage Certificate, again Saywell.

His daughter's Birth Certificate - he's Sewell.

His Death was registered as Sewell - though I can't find him on the Burial Index under either name.

Looks like as trip to the LDS Centre is on the cards.

M. Steer

.

It's me again.

The plot thickens!

Just thought I'd try and find something on William's Father - Bingo!

Ancestry has a copy of his enlistment papers - his name? Saywell. He actually signed his own name.

Now I'm really confused.

M. Steer

Margaret, with your latest find I would definitely keep him named as Saywell, especially because of the higher percentage certificate info.

As for Census, the enumerator would have written the name as he understood it when said, so give an allowance for accent and nasal twang.

Bob

Bob, thanks.

Unfortunately, my latest find was incorrect - definitely not my Gt.Gt.Gt.Grandfather.

Allowing for dialect - how many of my Saywells were Sewells or vice versa - I'm not sure anymore.

M. Steer

Margaret, was the fellow of whom I posted details from the IGI not him?

Bob

Bob, yes that was him.

One minute he's Saywell then he's Sewell.

M. Steer

....Gt Gt mother?
JULY ANNE SPLEVINS Pedigree
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 26 AUG 1827 Eltisley, Cambridge, England

Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM SPLEVINS Family
Mother: LETITIA
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C028321 1764 - 1875 0088600 Film 6912091 Film
Sheet: 00

and the marriage, with allowance for a late baptism

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JULY ANNA SPLEVING Pedigree
Female Family
marriages:
Spouse: WILLIAM SAYWELL Family
Marriage: 25 JUN 1844 Croxton, Cambridge, England
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M024931 1754 - 1877 0088598 Film 6912090 Film


Sheet: 00



Bob