Genealogy Chat

Can anyone explain please is it what we think.

found was John Musgrave burial date 2/3/1951 sect 7 lot 278 space 3.
This is in Florida USA.

We know that John Musgrave died in 1941 and that the date given is the date of his wife's burial.

What we can't understand is the numbering.

Does space 3 mean there was room for 3 bodies.

We think there may be a daughter in the grave have found a death but no further info so don't know if she was their child.

Any one got any idea.

Germaine
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germaine
dont know anything about amenrican burials but wondered if it may be worth contacting an american cemetery and they may be able to explain. if you dont live in america you may be able to find an email for any undertaker/cemetery in america who may be able to advise you.

please let us know how you get on as the info you get could help someone else.

good luck,

annette

H nnette
I did get in touch with a cemetry that was the answer. Got someone to ring ( another of the cousins.) he didn't ask not very good at this.
Anway another cousin is going to ring. I am in UK so ringing america !!
Think I will mail them back. Do it myself :-)
think I wil do that now see if they can clarify the numbers.
They didn't seem to know very much.
As though they didn't keep records !!
I would have thought if they had the grave numbers thy could say and this is who is in it.
Will let you know if I find any more.
Germaine
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Germaine, it looks very familiar to my rellies' graves (in Canada). If so, it is: the section and lot numbers are where the grave is located in the cemetery and "space" (my ancestors are in "plots") is where the body was placed. It could be a four-plot grave or even a 6-plot grave. I've never found a 3-plot grave.

Almost all of the cemeteries I've written to have been able to provide maps to help locate where the sections are. However, the oldest cemetery in Toronto was only from the 1800's. :)

When I last contacted a cemetery, after explaining who I was and why I wanted the information, the kind lady gave me my ancestor's information and that of everyone buried in the plot (they were all family).

You might be able to find your cemetery online. (Some Canadian cemeteries even have their maps online.) Good luck with everything.

PS I've seen instances where someone is buried with "strangers". One ancestor died young and she is either buried with strangers, or a family unknown to me. Another plot: our ancestors had a 6-plot grave - 5 are rellies, 1 is unknown. We believe it is a friend of the rellie who didn't have money.

Ah thanks Lisa so it seems my idea could be right it is a 3 body grave.
I suppose if he bought the grave and only wanted 3 in it then that would be why it was 3 space.
I have found their email address. I wrote by post first but they replied by email lucky I had kept it. So will let you know what they say.
They had said any question to ring but it is in USA me UK. So got a distant cousin over there to ring. should have given them a list of questions didn't tell me much at all.
So have asked them if they can't find who is in the grave could they tell me who will know.
He said they said they don't keep records!!!!
Very Strange hope my letter to them tells me more.
Germaine
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Germaine: perhaps it is a small cemetery??? My rellies are spread throughout Toronto cemeteries and they all have wonderful records, but then, they are all large cemeteries.

Perhaps if your cemetery is a small one in a smaller town, they may not have kept good records?

I have internet problems at home again, and I owe a couple of GR people emails, but is there anything that I can do? I'm across the country from Florida, but I'd be happy to "look around" after I finish some other things.

My break is over - back to work. :(

Ah Lisa that is good of you.
It is in Miami the Flagler memorial park. Will get the proper address.
If you can think of anything but I thik we have tried everything I hope this emila brings up smething.

Germaine
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Lisa.
Flagler Memorial Park cemetery .
Carol Gables
Miami
Florida

The service was held at
Philbricks Coral Gables chapel.
Not been able to find them.
Perhaps they aren't here any more.
Thanks :-))

Germaine
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Here ya go! Google found it by ignoring the "s".

http://www.nexport.com/company.cfm?company=1603269_PHILBRICK_LITHGOW_FUNERAL_CHAPEL_FUNERAL_DIRECTOR_SERVICE_CORAL_GABLES_FL

PHILBRICK & LITHGOW FUNERAL CHAPEL
100 ALHAMBRA CIR
CORAL GABLES, FL
33134-4503
Phone: 305-446-1616

It doesn't seem to have its own website and I'm not seeing an email address anywhere it's referred to.


And I think you have the cemetery, but for good measure:

Flagler Memorial Park
Jorge Cotte
5301 W. Flagler St.
Miami, FL 33134
(305) 446-7625
Fax (305) 470-2647
E-mail Unavailable

I don't know why, but that listing isn't on the current page:
http://www.fcafl.com/regular.html
but is in google's cached version.

Ah Kathryn thanks I wasn't sure on them but think I will give them a go. No I couldnn't see a web site.
Oh thanks for the last one didn't find them.

Germaine
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Just rereading your post:
"I suppose if he bought the grave and only wanted 3 in it then that would be why it was 3 space."

If their records are like the ones I've read in Canada, I believe your rellie was in the third space in the grave (not that the grave held three). They can actually tell by the plot or space number where in the grave the people are buried. (A little too much information I think, but I guess helpful.) :(

You can view a photograph of the cemetery on MapQuest. It's a very large cemetery, so they should have some sort of map.

Ah thanks Lisa.
So there may be even more in the grave.
It just confused us as it gives John Musgraves name but he died in 1941 then it goes on to give the date in 1951 which i the date that his wife was buried.
I have emailed them now to ask if they can clarify it.
Also am writing to the funeral home to see if they have records going back that far.
We have the date ( but only year)of what we think may be another family member so they may be able to help.
Oh thanks for the map quest pointer.
I did look on google maps and it did look a big place, I was suprised when that was the only info they gave me, think we should have said blow the cost and rang ourselves.
Thanks again fro all your help making it easier to understand.
Germaine
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Well it seems that there are not 3 bodies in one grave it is just the number of the grave. They are each single graves.
Germaine
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John Musgrave is buried at Sect 6 lot 285 grave 6 only John is buried here

Leah Musgrave is buried at Sect 7 lot 278 grave 3 only Leah is buried here

Germaine: How disappointing that you weren't able to find more rellies. :(

I don't remember, were John and Leah married? If so, I wonder why they weren't buried together. Perhaps their deaths were a bit unexpected? Or, perhaps it was less costly to purchase the single plots.

I hope you were given burial information?

Hi Lisa
We still haven't found a marriage are beginning to think they never really married.
Still waiting to see if we can get any info from the funeral parlours. No further info on the burial from the memorila park . I have written again to see if they were different religions see if that will answer the mystery.
But we think they were estranged on his death cert. although it has her name as wife it doesn't have her age and the informant we are not sure if it was male of female ( Billie sounds femlae) lived at his address it only has her name as wife but where it says to give her age if still alive it is blank as if the informant didn't know.
Also on the 1940 directory she is down as matron of the local childrnes home but it says she is widow of John. So he is not named. But he didn't die till 1941
Tell you one thing after the other with these two but been a very interesting journey.
Yes his death does look sudden.
Germaine
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Germaine, being Canadian, I don't know what information you could obtain if you have their social security numbers.

A friend had rellies in Washington state and in 1930 one spouse is listed as widow, even though her husband lived a couple of blocks away. If I remember correctly, they were "sharing" the children, so they both knew no one had died.

I could look again for your two, if you like? Don't remember their dates of birth, though.
-----------
PS Found your posting elsewhere, so I now have the dates and places of birth.

Do you know what his occupation was?

Hi Lisa I don't have their social security numbers sorry.
Dates of birth.
Leah nee Leadbetter May 1877 born in Isle of Man.
John Musgrave born June 1874 Cumberland, England.
I know they were in Scranton PA in 1929 well she was. They moved to Miami in about 1936/77.
She is matron of a childrens home in Flagler St. Miami from about 1937 - 1943.
Couldn't find them in 1930 but think they may have been on one of their trips over here then. Not sure there was talk of Canada.
If you would see if you could find anything I would be grateful.
Like you say she could have said she was a widow we thought that it would look better in her position wouldn't it.
Don't know if you can find anything on the informant on his death it just says Billie Bullough.
Not sure if this could be male or female.
Some one got me what we think is the informant on hers it looks like it could be just a friend but his address wasn't the same. Don't laugh got him 20 years earlier as a bread salesman so think he could well have been a friend who deliverd bread to the home. Seems logical. Wild guess.
Have got them going to USA in 1923.
Oh got him going to South Africa in 1901.
Think that is it. Don't want you wasting your time if we already have the info,
going off now it is late but will look in in the morning
Thanks for all your help
Germaine
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Hi Lisa yes he is down as a painter though when he went out there he was down as a pit man and before that an amalgamtor ( gold).
He was in Scranton with a family who had a paint business so we think he must have gone on to work for him. He ( the boss) left USA in about 1936 he was poorly and came home. This tallies with wehn the Musgraves went to Florida.
Germaine
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Hi Germaine

Thank you for including all of the information. I searched last night and couldn't find anything.

I was also looking around for Charles Leadbetter, as he was supposed to have lived in Carbondale, in case there were any leads with him. Also having trouble finding him.

Looked briefly for Billie and didn't see him/her. I've only known female Billie's, but looking at 1930 census, there were actually males with that name.

Will print out your two postings later and look around more another time. Sorry I couldn't find anything now.