Genealogy Chat

Wow! What can I say????

I had discounted Dennis due to his age but it's amazing what a different perspective can do.

I have so much to follow up but I can't begin to thank you all enough for giving me a fresh start at Mary's birth.

I'll look through it all this week and hopefully I'll have good news to share.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me. If I can repay the favour with Nottinghamshire baptism look ups or Lincs marriages 1837-70, let me know. I recently purchased the Notts FHS baptism viewer and downloaded the Lincs marriages info from the website.

Thanks again
Judy

Oh, I think you're right Andy. 24 could very well be 29.



Deb:)

Looking at the 1901 image Theresa was 29 not 24 so she wasn't a very young mother :-)

Andy

Theresa, Samuel and Mary in 1891. Theresa is older than I expected her to be. Probably bumped up her age for respectability.


1891 England Census
about Mary E Smith
Name: Mary E Smith
Age: 11 months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Samuel J
Mother's Name: Theresa
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Bradford
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary E Smith 11 months
Samuel J Smith 21
Theresa Smith 19




The census was taken in April and Mary was already 11 months old, so born in May? 1890.



Deb:)



This was the only Mary E Smith born in the right quarter in Manchester.



Name: Mary Ellen Smith
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Manchester (1837-1924)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 191




It would be a good idea to first order Dennis' marriage cert, but put a ref check on spouse being Theresa. If it does turn out to be Theresa, then I think you've found your Mary.


Cheers




Deb:)

Mary McGraph
Year of Registration: 1881
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Walsall
County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 737 (click to see others on
BIT OLDER

Got it!


Name: Samuel Smith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 31
District: Manchester (1837-1924)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 229




It just might be coming together.


Deb:)

I got to thinking about what Reggie suggested about Mary giving her step-father's details.

If Dennis married Theresa Smith in 1907 then the following will be worth while looking into.

I've found a Theresa Smith who had a daughter Mary when she was roughly 14 years old. Mary's birth year is 1891.


1901 England Census
about Mary Smith
Name: Mary Smith
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Samuel
Mother's Name: Theresa
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Manchester St Aidan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Smith 3 months
Mary Smith 10
Samuel Smith 31
Theresa Smith 24
Thomas Smith 8


Could we search for a death for Samuel?


Deb:)

Hi Judy,

Anything's possible I suppose. I don't think Dennis senior was Mary's father anyway. I've found Annie Maria in 1881 and again, her hubby isn't in the picture. She's described as a Mason's wife. Mary's father was a butcher.

1881 England Census
about Annie Mc Grath
Name: Annie Mc Grath
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Wife (Head) (Head)
Gender: Female
Where born: Hope, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address: 5 Mitchell St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Masons Wife

Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: North Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Mc Grath 29
Catherine Mc Grath
Dennis Mc Grath 3
Henry Mc Grath 1





Deb:)

Thanks All

Deb - I found Dennis on the 1891 but the age put me off. You may be right though and she is under her mothers name somewhere.

Reggie - These marriages are possibilities but as Glitter Baby says Beatrice would have been too young and finding Theresa Smith could be difficult given the number of Smiths on the 1901 census.

I have had a thought though about Anne Maria and Dennis snr. Do you think it possible that Mary may have been Anne's daughter but not Dennis's? He isn't mentioned on the 1901 census as being in the house with them so possible he was dead. However if Anne had an illegitimate child and sent her to live with relatives.......There is a Mary living in Sheffield in 1901 with a Kate and Edward Foy (could be Fox)
If she was illegitimate perhaps she got her older brother to stand in for her at her wedding. What do you think??

Judy

If Dennis married Beatrice then I think she is too young to be the mother

1901 has a Beatrice Egginton age 13 living in Sheffield

1901 possible

Name: Annie Maria McGrah
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Hope, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Brightside Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: Neepsend St Michael and All Angels
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: West Brightside
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 160
Household Members: Name Age
Catherine Cam 41
John Henry Cam 15
Tom James Cam 13
Annie Maria McGrah 53
Beatrice McGrah 20
Henry McGrah 21
John McGrah 19

The Cam family are on a separate household schedule

There is a Dennis McGrate listed in 1901 but occupation is fruit hawker and he is single

Following through from Deb's findings............

Name: Dennis McGrath
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Sheffield
County: South Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 997
Beatrice Egginton OR Theresa Smith

Could Mary/May have given a stepfather's details as being her father's?

Judging by the mother's name in 1891..........possible marriage for the parents

Anne Maria Longden 1875 Oct-Nov-Dec Sheffield South Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Dennis McGrath 1875 Oct-Nov-Dec Sheffield South Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding

Reg

Judy,

There were 17 Dennis McGraths in the country in 1891 ranging in age from 3 to 67. When I searched Yorkshire, only the one came up. He just happened to be living in Sheffield and he was a butcher.

Now, the Denis that you're looking for my not be the young lad I found above. He may have come from Ireland or Scotland after the census was taken and wasn't around for the 1901 either, but what you have here is someone by the same name, region, occupation.

Too much of a coincidence?



Deb:)

OK Judy. At last something to work with. I've found a Dennis McGrath, butcher's apprentice in 1891. It would mean that he fathered Mary at the age of 14/15, not totally unheard of. It also might explain why you've not been able to find her birth ref. If her parents were too young to marry, then she was probably born under her mother's maiden name.

MCGRATH, Anny Maria Head Married F 40
Woodlands
Derbyshire
MCGRATH, Dennis Son M 13 Butchers Apprentice
Sheffield
Yorkshire
MCGRATH, Henry Son M 11 Scholar
Sheffield
Yorkshire
MCGRATH, Kate Daughter F 10 Scholar
Sheffield
Yorkshire
MCGRATH, John Son M 9 Scholar
Sheffield
Yorkshire
MCGRATH, Ellen Daughter F 5 Scholar
Sheffield
Yorkshire
BOLSOVER, Mary Louisa Visitor Married F 30

BOND, Elizabeth Visitor Married F 39
Sheffield
Yorkshire
BOND, Anny Elizabeth Visitor F 11
Sheffield
Yorkshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
3813 Folio:
79 Page:
1

Registration District:
Ecclesall Bierlow Sub District:
Ecclesall Bierlow EnumerationDistrict:
74 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Heeley

Civil Parish:
Heeley Municipal Borough:
Sheffield Address:
13, Gregory Road, Heeley, Sheffield County:
Yorkshire (West Riding)




Deb:)

Nudge

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I cannot find Mary anywhere on the 1901 census. All those listed I've cross checked the families in the 1881 and 1891 census and none seem to have any connection to Mary.
skwirrel was right about the name variation though. Although she was Mary on her marriage and death certificates she was known as May! This hasn't helped much either. I couldn't find a May McGrath with a Denis either.
She eventually lived in Sheffield as that is where she married and died. My grandfather and his siblings were all born here so I first thought she must have been born here. However I can't find her.

After 2 years and don't know how many certificates I'm beginning to think she made her father's name up as she didn't know it!

Judy

Ive just looked on the family search site for you sadly there is no Maria McGrath with those dates in scotland registered there where 11 in england round the newcastle and durham areas but none with Denis as the father sorry so perhaps ancestory or the censuses will be a better option for you
good luck
FI

hi judy

I went down that road with a mary - turned out she was born maria.

Try looking up variants on her name before buying any more certs.

good luck

skwirrel

Hi Judy

There were 15 hits for Mary McGrath 1890-1894 on Scotlands People. I haven't got any credits left on there or I would have looked at them for you, so might be worth your while?

Mary

try looking her up on the 1901 census it should give you details of where she was born then se if you can get her certifiacte DONT keep buying certificates until you are absolutely sure you have the right one it must be costing you a fortune.
good luck
Fi