Genealogy Chat

ok well thank you sooooo much for your help. i can't beleive how much more i know now than i did this morning. he would have only been 14 in 1851 so too young to be on there in the army. will start another thread about r.atiliary. thanks again bryan.

Leanne

I know little about military records. Try doing an internet search or try starting a thread asking for help with Royal Artillery records.

I had a go at finding him in 1851 without any luck. Chances are his family came over at about the time of the famine or he may have joined up over in Ireland.
When did the Crimean war start? May he have been over there in 1851 or maybe in India. It should be possible to find out where his regiment was at variuous times.

Bryan

thnks bryan. i guess if he was irish, that would be the most obvious nickname!!!

so i know he was in britain by 1861, is there anyway to find when he joined the army? that way i might be able to find an even earlier date.

And just to add to the confusion in 1861 he was called Patrick. (maybe he was nicknamed Paddy and the man writing out the census assumed that was a version of Patrick). Many people in the services were known by nicknames.

1861 census RG9-666 folio 185, No 9 Field Battery 4 Brigade Royal Artillery, Christchurch Barracks
Patrick FAGAN Unmarried 24 Bombardier Royal Artillery Ireland

Bryan

he was born in newry, i think. however he would be 10 years older, although it could have been wrongly transcribed. if he was 34 it could tie in. his age on marriage cert is 36. however why would his name be timothy on this????

This is not the right given name but I'll bet it is your man since eh did get married in exeter shortly afterwards to jane Underhill.

1871 census RG10-2069 folio 56, Cavalry Barracks, Exeter Devon
Amongst many others
Timothy FAGAN Driver Unm 34 Driver Royal Artillery Newry Co Down Ireland
(in Ancestry the age has been transcribed as 24)

Bryan

right ok. well i could'nt find him on any census'. do you know of any websites or such that might give me information about the royal artillary or where they were at that time?

If they are living in barracks then they would appear on the census but not if they were overseas

Adam's son james was an apprentice upholsterer in 1891, but in 1900 at his time of marriage he was an assylum attendant at Brookewood assylum woking. i beleive adam was in the r.artillary living at the barracks when he married in 1872. i cannot find him on any census' until 81. are people living in army barracks on census records or would i have to search for his army record to find when he joined army and so find when he came to britain from Ireland?

thank you both. i am going to collect the certs i already have concerning them all. i will be back soon. it might give me more information. thanks again.

Here is the visitor in 1891. If he is related then it might be found out by checking what his mothers maiden name was.

1891 census RG12-251 folio 73, 14 Tyson Street, Shoreditch, London
Emma SHROSBREE Head Wid 40 Charring London St Leonards
Charles do Son 14 Errand Boy London Islington
Joseph do Son 8 London Shoreditch
Louise do Daur 3 London do

Bryan

The 1891 census shows Adam as a coachman/groom domestic servant - not sure how you would find out who he was working for

yes your theory about them actually being lodgers, sounds very plausable, just as people try to dodge tax etc now. sounds abt right. thanks. :)

thanks Bryan. was wondering where he'd got to. glad to hear he was still alive. unlike poor william.

how would i find out who adam was working for in 1891? if he is in domestic service, is there any way of finding out who for?

Leanne
Own Acct means they did not work for an Employer. Otherwise they would have been marked as "worker". If they employed other people they would be marked "Employer".
I think the "cabt" which looked to be added later may mean he upholstered Cabinets - as distinct from coffins maybe?
SRY is the Chapman code for the county of Surrey in the same way as DEV is for Devon, MDX is for Middlesex.
The Joseph THROB??? is just marked as a visitor. They occur quite a lot in the census records. Often they are family but without a clear relationship. I also have a pet theory that sometimes they were actually lodgers or boarders but not mentioned as such because maybe then the landlord would demand more rent or perhaps the tenancy did not allow lodgers to be taken in.

Bryan

Yes it will give cause of death

Here is Albert in 1901

1901 census RG13-1057, 99 College Street, Southampton
BAROR Family
Albert FAGAN Boarder S 19 Plasterer (said born in Southampton but probably just too lazy to do anything other than do do)

Marlene- thanks i will order the cert. will it give the cause of death on the cert?

Bryan- does own acct mean they are responsible for themselves, as in living separately? James who is 18 in 1891 is my ancestor, he is an aprectice Upholsterer. he married in 1900 and is with his wife and son Fred in 1901 in Pirbright. what does (cabt) mean next to his entry, and SRY mean next to the younger jane and charlie? does it give any other relationship between Joseph Shrobsbra than visitor, as in is he related or perhaps just a friend?

thank you both so much.

The only way to check if the death is the right William would be to buythe certificate, but as the age is about right it seems most likely to be him.

Have found the birth of a William A T Fagan

Births Sep 1877

Fagan William Arter T St. Thomas 5b 72


St Thomas is a reg district in Devon and I believe he was born in Devon so this would make it the same William

I bet someone beats me to this.

1891 census Rg12-610 folio 18, Victoria Cottages Mill Place (maybe no 7), Norbiton Ward Kingston
Adam FAGAN Head M 55 Coachman, Groom, Dom Serv Ireland
Jane do Wife M 42 DEV Dawlish
James do Son S 18 Upholsterer (Cabt) Apprentice DEV Exeter
John do Son 15? Bill Poster DEV Devonport
Albert do Son 10 Scholar DEV Alphington
Jane do Daur 4 SRY Kingston
Charlie do Son 1 SRY do

1901 census Rg13-662 folio 145, 50 Avenue Rd, Kingston on Thames
Adam FAGAN Head M 63 Gardener Own Acct Ireland Newry
Jane do Wife M 52 DEV Dawlish
John A. do Son S 25 Bricklayer Own Acct DEV Devonport
Jane A. do Daur S 15 SRY Kingston
Charles W. do Son 11 SRY do
Joseph THROSBRA? Visitor S 18 Plasterer Own Acct MDX Horton