Genealogy Chat

My thanks to everyone who helped me out tonight....I'm calling it quits for now and will start again tomorrow.
Althought I think we can say with some degree of certainty (however small) that Sarah BEAR/BEER had a child Mary Maria with Francis FORDE and depending on how she felt at the time Mary alternated between the 2 surnames which indicates to me that there was never an actual marriage.
Thanks again
Sue

Me too, although I prefer to be called 'inquisitive'!

Hi Lindy
Saw that earlier when I was looking for any hints about my Francis....thought if I found his will it may say "I leave xxx to my daughter Mary ??" but no luck.
However, thanks for the reminder as it may be worth the £3.50 to get it and see whats what.... (I like being nosey)
Sue

Hi Susan, not relevant to your question in the slightest, but this could be a reference to Francis Forde's Father:

Description Will of Francis Forde, Lieutenant in His Majesty's Royal Navy of Chittagong Bengal , East Indies
Date 30 April 1789
Catalogue reference PROB 11/1178
Dept Records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Series Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers
Piece Name of Register: Macham Quire Numbers: 196 - 242
Image contains 1 will of many for the catalogue reference


(From The National Archives)

East Indies is what I read. I haven't found him in 1841. Perhaps he was still out there.

1841:

Name: Mary Beer
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Kent, England

Civil parish: Charlton
Hundred: Bewsborough
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Dover
Sub-registration district: St James
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Beer 15

She's a servant for a Peake family. Wonder what her real relationship is to Francis?

Hi Lindy Lou....I took it to be East Indies and looks like he was a Civil service pensioner
Sue

On the 1851 info for Francis Forde it says he was born Iredie, Essex. Is it just me, or does it look more like 'East Indies'?

Looks like you've got something there, Susan.

Deaths Mar 1840
GREENGRASS Sarah Dover 5 86

Marriages Dec 1840
...>>>GREENGRASS Charles Dover 5 180
...>>>LAWS Lydia Dover 5 180
SOUTHEY William Dover 5 180
WILLES Christian Dover 5 180


1841:
Name: Charles Greengrass
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England

Civil parish: St Mary
Hundred: Dover Town and Port
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Dover
Sub-registration district: St Mary
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Greengrass 25
Lydia Greengrass 20
Hannah Greengrass 4
Charles Greengrass 2


I realise this isn't helping much. Ozi.!

Hi Andy
Now this is interesting......
Have just looked on IGI and there's a Mary Maria BEER baptised in 1829 at St Mary the Virgin in Dover whose mother was Sarah BEER....ring any bells !!!
wonder if Mary Maria BEER and Mary Maria FORDE are one and the same person. Maybe Francis FORDE did have a fling with Sarah BEER/BEAR before she married Charles Greengrass. If that is the case wonder why the name change for Mary. Is this sounding possible or am I grabbing at straws ?
Sue

How about this from the IGI

MARY MARIA BEER Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 17 JUN 1829 Saint Mary The Virgin, Dover, Kent, England


Parents:
Mother: SARAH BEER Family


Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C036563 1827 - 1849 0355633 Film 6906439 Film

I think this is Jane in 1841. Are these Greengrasses any connection with your family?

Name: Jane Greengrass
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Gender: Female
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St George The Martyr
Hundred: Southwark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: St George the Martyr Southwark
Sub-registration district: Kent Road
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Greengrass 50 - labourer
Maria Greengrass 40 - laundress
Jane Greengrass 10 (12 on image)
Mary Dyer 25 - female servant

In 1861 Hannah is living with Mary A Bear b 1830 in Dover. Mary's occupation is given as 'fundholder'.

Andy

Hi Lindy lou
Yep thats the one...looks like Francis was a widower and can't find him in 1841 to see who he was married to.... makes me wonder if he had a "fling" with Sarah Bear. But would it have been usual for the father to keep the child ?
Sue

On the image Francis's age is put quaintly as 'upwards of 70'.

Ozi.

1851. Any good?

Name: Mary M Forde
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Francis
Gender: Female
Where born: Dover, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Broadwater
Town: Worthing
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Worthing
Sub-registration district: Broadwater
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 102
Household Members: Name Age
Francis Forde 70
Mary M Forde 21
Jane Greengrass 28

-----------------------
You've already mentioned this. I really should read the question properly first!

Hi Reg
In 1851 Hannah is in Russell Place Dover and in 1861 in Clerkenwell as a lodger. It appears that neither girls married and when Mary died in 1894 it looks like she left all her money to Hannah as in previous census Mary was living on own means but after she dies Hannah is living on own means so they have to have been related somehow

Hi Phyllis
I would have thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, that if Sarah Bear were the mother of both girls she would have married Charles as Sarah Forde not Bear. Can't find entry on IGI for any marriage but of course that doesn't mean to say there wasn't one...Sue

Posting 1881.......purely for info

Household:

Mary M. FORDE Head U Female 51 Dover, Kent, England
Hannah L. GREENGRASS Step Sister U Female 44 Dover, Kent, England
Eliza MARSH Serv U Female 27 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Gen Serv
Thomas W. WHITELOCK Lodger U Male 64 Manchester, Lancashire, England Surgeon Not Practising

And Hannah's christening

HANNAH LOUISA GREENGRASS Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 12 APR 1837 Saint Mary The Virgin, Dover, Kent, England


Parents:
Father: CHARLES GREENGRASS
Mother: SARAH


Presumably, somewhere along the line, one parent of each girl married each other..........if you see what I mean!!

Step-sister does not mean that there is any blood relationship between the girls.............

Reg