Genealogy Chat

Hello Everyone!
I am trying to find information about my grandmother IDA BAILEY who actually grew up in an orphanage. I have her marriage certificate with her fathers name which says "Charles Bailey- deceased" and i am guessing her mother was also dead.
I know she was in the orphange with her brother billy but thats all i know.
She was born in the middlewich area of cheshire in about 1912.
Could anyone tell me how i can find out any more information? especially anything about the orphanage?
I have tried looking for her birth certificate but nothing comes up.
Any help would be very much appreciated!
Thanks for reading,
Hannah

Do you think that your grandmother could have been illegitimate and made up the deceased father to save face at her wedding?

There is this birth in 1912:-

Ida Bailey, mother's maiden name Bailey
March qtr. 1912, Congleton, 8a, 560

Do you know if her brother was older or younger than her?

Kath. x

Hi Kath, Thanks very much for that.
You could be right there because it says "charles bailey- deceased" and that he was a police constable. She married Alexander Walton and his family would never have anything to do with my dad and his brothers and sisters and i always wondered why- i guess if they knew she was illegitimate that might explain something.
I guess i have no way of ever knowing?!

hannah xx

Hi Have only found the same as Kath who makes a good point that she could have made up a name for her father.
Also Congleton is only about 12 miles away from Middlewich so very close in area.
Yes brothers age may help.

Germaine
x

.......oh forgot to say i'm pretty sure her brother was younger. I know my dad talks of charles bailey existing because he was a local police constable and apparently as bent as the criminals- but my dad remembers very little from his childhood really.
I haven't found any charles bailey in any records either- so maybe he doesnt exist?

Thanks to Germaine and Kath. In those days i guess it would have been very embarrassing to be illegitimate? xx

Have you checked the full index for Billy could be William.
Thing is we have no idea of how old this so called Charles could be do we if he wasn't made up.
Yes thik some times they did do this to save face.
I have one and we are sure he usd his Grandmothers name as his mothers name on his marriage.
It all points to this.


Germaine
x

Thats true. I've tried searching for charles but can't really find anything in the middlewich area. I also have no info on who her mother would be.
I am from Congleton myself so i know that middlewich is close so it is possible.
Is there anyway i can look at that birth certificate, the one from 1912 with the mothers maiden name as bailey without ordering it?
Im not so good at knowing where to search. xx

Sorry Hannah,

The only way to see the birth certificate is to buy it.

There are two cCharles Bailey's in the Middlewich area on the 1901 census but neither of them are policemen (but I suppose they could have changed occupation before Ida married). They are a bit older than I would have expected, but i wonder if Charles Bailey could have been Ida's grandfather and she used his name on her marriage certificate. It has been known to happen.

These are the two Charles Bailey's:-

Name Parent or spouse names Birth Year BIRTHPLACE Relation Civil Parish County/Island

Charles Bailey - Mary abt 1851 Middlewich, Cheshire, England Head Middlewich Cheshire

Charles Bailey - Mary E abt 1855 Sandbach, Cheshire, England Head Middlewich Cheshire


Kath. x

You won't be able to find any details on the cert without ordering.
I checked out the 1901 census and only 2 Charles Baileys both a bit old to be the father and niether a police man. No Charles in Congleton.
Are you on ancestry if not after tea Iwill look through the BMD see if I can find a Billy / William Bailey in the same area a bit younger than Ida.
I wonder just a thought did she perhaps use her granfathers name but make up an occupation for him on her marriage. You know they were very devious :-))
Was her mothers name ever mentioned.
Germaine
x

I think you could be right there Kath. Thanks.
One other quick question, is there a way to find out if a person had brother and sisters if they were born after the 1901 census?

xx

Kath you beat me to it. :-))
But you are thikning on the same lines as I am.

Germaine
x

Yes Hannah but the mothers maiden name only shows up in teh last quarter and after 1911.
Though to be perfectly sure you would have to get cert.
I will make a start on the BMD for you.
10 mins then off to tea so will be back see how you are going on.
Germaine
x

Thanks Germaine! That would be great.
I think you and Kath could be right- she used her grandfather's name. I will order the certificate and see what that says.
I dont have any ideas about the mothers possible name- i will ask my dad again but he says that he never saw his mothers parents and that she never mentioned them (maybe thats a clue) apart from to say he was a policeman and thats all.
I think im probably going to hit a brick wall here aren't i!

xx

Between the 1901 census and 1912 when mother's maiden names were put on the birth index, it is quite difficult as you would have to look through the complete index looking for births with the correct surname in the approximate area, but there would be no way of knowing if these were the same family.

Once the mother's maiden name is on the index then you look for the correct surname and correct mother's maiden name and hopefully they will be the same family - but again you need to buy the certificates to be sure.

Kath. x

You could check with the Cheshire County Records Office to see if they have any records from local orphanages. I don't know if they are likely to keep these sort of records, but if they did they might have some sort of admittance records with details of family members.

It's worth checking anyway.

Kath. x

Oh Kath youare so much better at explaining things than I am. I make it sound hard work.
Just a thought Hannah do you know what happened to her brother. Did he stay in the area.
Maybe if w can find when he died it may give a clue to his age so making it easier to check for his birth.
There is one heck of a lot of William Baileys out there with Baileys as the mothers surname. Just not found one in the right area yet. Plus she may have travelled out of the area to have him.
Didn't make life simple did they.
Germaine
x

Thanks for that Germaine, but explaining things and finding anything are two different things!!

As you say there are an awful lot of William Bailey's out there. Good idea about trying to find William's death, but I have a feeling Hannah is not going to know when that was.

Kath. x

Just spoke to my dad and he thinks that his mum Ida had a sister called Sarah Bailey.
He also says he never met Charles bailey and he was rarely mentioned so i think she may have made him up.
My dad does have a sister in america he sometimes talks to so im going to try and ask her for more info and im going to order the birth certificate.

Just to confuse things even more! - my dad thinks that Billy or william was Ida's step brother so i dont know how that one fits in!
xx