Genealogy Chat

I am just wondering if my relatives were typical of the time. See below

My Mum and dad were both born in the London area, where their parents were born. As I trace their familis back on the census it seems that many of their ancestors moved into London round about the 1850's - when I lose most of them on the census as they are not in the village where they came from so I guess they were in London/Surrey/Kent by then. Interestly they came from all over the country and then met in London so it makes for some diverse research. In the last few days I have found another family who did the same from yet another county. It was not just the younger generation that moved, often the whole family moved with grown up children. I was wondering firstly if my lot were typical and seconly why most of them moved in the 1850's ? Presumeably industry was a lure - but did life in the country become more difficult too for some reason? Alice

Hi Alice Mine moved from rural Essex where they were Agricultural Labourers to Lambeth, London where the Dad became a Stoker at an Engineering Works. Their children's occupations varied from Postman, Weigh Gas Meter Maker, Commercial Clerk, Shop Assistant and Dressmakers. Probably more opportunites than they would have got working on someone else's farm in Wimbish, Essex! Interestingly, though, once the railways arrived, they all moved back out of London to Essex again - but nearer London, West Ham, Forest Gate etc. It would be interesting to know what prompted them all to leave Essex in the first place. Natalie PS. They left Essex in 1848.

Mad Alice My gt gt grandfather moved to London at some point between his birth in Essex 1812 and his marriage in Kennington, Surrey in 1858. He then settled in Richmond, Surrey for the rest of his life. Of course, Kennington was probably still a village rather than part of Greater London, then. Ditto Richmond. I am just thinking that he may well have moved from Kennington to Richmond by train as there is a line from Vauxhall to Richmond. Railways opened up travel possibilities. But I have found that none of my relatives moved further than about 10 miles away before the 1850s, which is when the railways really began expanding. My Warwickshire gt grandfather moved to London sometime after 1851 and before 1865 (haven't found him on 1861 census in either his birth village or his London address). His wife was in Cambridge in 1851 and in London 1865 (when they married - but again I don't know where she was in 1861). nell

My Norfolk grandfather and his brothers all moved to London in the late 1800s as they became old enough to ditch the aglab work and enrol in the Met. My grandfather was too small so he started working for Gordon & Tanqueray gin distillers, before running a picture framer's shop. I understand that the Met police deliberately recruited men from outside London as they were considered to be healthier and more physically fit. The only jobs around in Norfolk apart from the seasonal ag lab stuff was fishing, and family legend has it that my gt grandmother was adamant none of her sons were going to do that as a family she knew had lost a father and several sons in an accident at sea. nell

Mad Alice Some info from Roy Porter's book 'London: a social history': 'Between 1841 and 1851 some 330,000 mgrants flooded into the capital, representing a staggering 17 per cent of London's total population. Of these, 46,000 came from Ireland, fleeing famine and swelling the London Irish community to around 130,000. In the 1850s a further 286,000 migrants arrived; in the 1860s 331,000. Before 1840 the majority came from the south-east, but by the 1860s, with agriculture in crisis*, the net widened; all were drawn by the hope of work... In 1800 London's population had been around 1 million. By 1881 it had soared to 4.5 million and by 1911 to over 7 million. In 1800 around one in ten inhabitants of England and Wales dwelt in the metropolis; by 1900 it was a breathtaking one in five.' nell *not sure what this agricultural crisis was, but it was obviously a key factor

My dad moved to London from Hartlepool in search of work during the depression in the 1930s. My mother's family had been there somewhat longer. Her paternal Grandad moved to London from the Isle of Wight in the 1880s, and his wife had moved from Bicester, Oxfordshire around the same time.

Nell, have you noticed that they have started to put the 1861 census on 1837 Online. I'm eagerly awaiting Norfolk and Berkshire, but have found a couple of mine on the London/Middlesex ones which are available now. I think most of mine moved to London to escape being Ag Labs for the rest of their lives. My grandmother moved from a village in Berkshire to work in a big house as a ladies maid and met my grandad (who came from Northampton) there who was stationed at Chelsea Barracks after the end of WW1. Carolyn

Yes, I've found some of my rellies on the 1861 on 1837online, but not my elusive gt grandparents, curses! nell

So it seems that the movement was mainly due to the railways, and some sort of agricultural crisis. At this time though most agriculture would still have needed loads of man power - so I wonder what it was? Nell i had a gggGrandgather move from Suffolk into thr police - his dad and rest of the family moved too. Can't find them on the 1851. alice

Mad Alice I did a quick google on agricultural crisis 1860s and it appears that this was a European-wide phenomenon, not just the British Isles. I'll do a bit of sleuthing and see what I can find in my history books. nell

Good Morning Everyone I'ts a beautifull morning here in Somerset so I'm going to tear myself away from the computer & try to get some work done in the garden but I had to add to this thread first. I always wondered why I had such a love for the country as my parents & grandparents were all Londoners. It seems the Genes are to blame. I have found that all bar one of my gr grandparents came from Oxfordshire & the one remaining came from what was then rural Hornchurch, Essex. Thats what I love about this hobby it explains so much about oneself. Oh dear, I don't type very fast & I've just looked out to see black clouds appearing. Maybe I will be on here longer than I thought.Bye for now Vivienne

Hi Vivienne, It also probably explains why i have an allotment - obviously we need to keep in touch with the land just like those agricultural workers of the past! i draw the line at walking 5 miles to church on a Sunday morning though! alice

My Norfolk GGFx2 moved to London in the 1830's when he was only 17 years old. It seems he was followed by his cousin and family as descendants were still in touch in the 1930's, which is amazing really. I am now in touch with the descendants of that cousin. Life was very hard in the country - as you probably know there was the potato famine in Ireland which sent many Irish either to US or over to the industrial cities in the UK, i.e. Liverpool and London. I have seen parish notes where money has been raised to send families to Canada and the States because they were in dire poverty in their village. These notes even list the provisions given to them to eat on the way. No wonder they thought the docks in London was the place to be. Then they had to live in the slums thrown up for the growing population. Sad, eh.

My Grandmother was born in East london - next to west Hams ground 1903, her mothers father came from Germany in 1860, it seems over 6,000 Germans came to st Georges in the East, to work in the baking of sugar, her fathers family came from a village near Canterbury in Kent, they were all blacksmiths and came about 1890 to run blacksmiths in East London, but as the need for blacksmiths in London reduced they ended up moving to essex to become village blacksmiths again

Agricultural crisis was caused by the arrival of cheap wheat from America. Particularly in the 1870s, many families who had clung on in rural areas were forced off the land. My very rural Norfolk ancestors stayed desparately on. The livelier ones had emigrated in the 1840s or travelled up to the Sunderland area to work as miners, sailors or shipwrights, but in the 1870s even old men were moving on. Often it was the women who were more adventurous, taking jobs as servants in London. I am convinced, but cannot absolutely prove, than there were very strong kinship links, and many people were found their first jobs in a new area by recommendation of family and friends.

Brenda I think you're right. I was intrigued to find that my Norfolk grandfather and his brother were both lodgers in Hoxton and their landlord came from Norfolk too. Haven't yet worked out the connection. nell

Hi All I'm back, the black clouds came to nothing so I managed to get the grass cut but it's too cold to stay out for long.Thats my excuse anyway. Alice, how on earth do you find time to keep an alotment? Brenda & Nell, I'm sure you're right. There seems to be quite a community from Cassington, Oxford around Kensington in the mid 1800s. Vivienne

My great-grandfather Carles Numenn or Neumann (Charles Newman) arrived in London from Riga, Latvia, probably around the early 1870s. (I can't find him on the 1871 census, but he married my great-grandmother in 1876). He was a cabinet maker and I have yet to discover what made him emigrate. My 4x gt-grandparents moved with their children from Northampton to the City of London between 1830 - 1834. Again, I am unsure why, as they were all hairdressers with their own business, and I would have thought they were already financially secure. It would have been great to have been a 'fly on the wall' to understand why they did certain things, wouldn't it!?

I find it really fascinating to track the movements of my ancestors. I too have a blacksmith in my tree whose family moved from Norfolk to Greenwich - obviously to work in the dockyards - what a different life it must have been - but I guess it put the bread on the plates. I'm trying to make my tree a bit more than a list of dates now and I think knowing the historical background to peoples lives must help - after all not many of us will be lucky enough to find direct references to our relatives. Thank you for all your replies. Alice