Genealogy Chat

Some interesting thoughts appearing in this thread. Contrary to popular opinion, the Data Protection Act is not really about the confidentiality or secrecy of personal inormation. What it seeks to do is to stike a balance between the rights of individuals and those with legitimate reasons for processing personal data. There are eight principles of good practice which centre around the processing of data in a fair manner and six conditions, at least one of these which must be met for data to be considered to be fairly pocessed. One of the main conditions, but not the only one, is that the individual must give consent, and hence the reason why Genes Re-united have probably chosen to include this in their T & C's The fact that a person has not given conent does not mean that anyone is breaking any laws, as one of the other six conditions may equally well apply. A Birth Certificate is not evidence of identity. A statement to this effect is printed on the certificate. However, some institutions may rely on a certificate in conjunction with other documents or safeguards. Usually proof falls into two categories firstly something to identify who you are. A passport or driving licence are the most common - both of these in themeselves require you going through some sort of verification process before they are issued, and also carry a photograph. The second item of documentation concerns proof of where you live. Therfore a utility Bill or Bank Statement with your name and address on is often required. The need to produce two different types of document dramatically reduces, but will never altogether eliminate, fraudulent ID&V. Turning to other sources of information. The Electoral Roll - or more precisely some of the information contained in it - is in the public domain. However because the Data Protection Act has introduced new rules about using personal information for direct marketing, the rules regarding the use of it's infomation have been tightened up. Secondly the telephone directory. By agreeing to have your name and address in the directory you have effectively made it available to the world. At one time you could go to any public library and havve access to evey name and address in the country listed in the directory. Now with the Internet, all you need to do is to go to www.bt*com. Click on Directory enquiries 'find a person' Enter your surname and town, or even first part of your postcode and you might be surprised what you see. It is as easy as that, and all perfectly legal. Peter

Hi Christine Sounds like a better system! You have 56 days to register a birth here but it can take that long to get an appointment. Not sure about registering them in hospital here anymore. You certainly haven't been able to at our local one for the past 20+ years, not sure about other counties Lou

Hi Lou, In scotland it's a little different when registering a birth. On leaving hospital, you're given a card that you take along to the register office along with your marriage certificate (if married), no appointment necessary, and you have to give them all the details when you go. You can't register the birth in hospital, which I beleive you can do in England. You must do this within 21 days of the birth, in the regisration district the child was born in. Christine

Birth certificates are not identification. It takes alot more to impersonate someone with just that. If you have someones original birth certificate (and it looks like the original) then that can be deemed indentification with a few other things. I don't know if I'm making any sense. As alot of people said, these are only indexes, don't need anyones permission, but with trees thats a bit different.

I have not read all the messages but in London you will be able to view the Indexing up to the last book which could be Dec qtr 2004, not sure if they have done Mar qtr 2005 yet. The only difference is you can't order certificates unless you have proof of who you are next of kin or the actual person I think this is 50 years but don't quote me. Irene

Brian Fortunately not (for the taxpayer, that is!) Hospitals (or in the case of a home birth, the attending midwife) have to provide details of all births to the local register office. When you ring to make an appointment to register a birth, they ask you the mothers name and when and where the baby was born. They then cross check this information against the info supplied by the medical profession! Lou

I would be more concerned that the electoral roll and phone directory are online: your name, address and phone number for all the world to see. And you wonder why the double-glazing people won't stop calling! At least nothing on the GRO index is instantly identifiable. The problem with making it harder to get a cert is that it would mean showing ID to get ID. What happens to people who lose everything in a fire, or whose house is burgled and their passport etc stolen? When the tsunami struck some people had awful trouble because they no longer had ID. Most ID thefts are caused by twits handing out their bank details or not shredding letters with personal info.

Shelli, i think there are extra boxes to fill in (checks) if the certificate is for someone after certain dates. (on 1837) Ann Glos

Hi when my lovely Mum died 7 years ago someone took her identity and got some credit cards etc, and god knows what else. Because her house was three doors up from mine i used to check her house for mail (and just sit in there for hours as it just smelt of her) then i found a redirected mail notice for her dated after her death. It seems that a gang had a warehouse in London that all the mail was going too, we think they saw her death notice in the local paper with her age applied for her birth certificate then redirected her mail and managed to get these credit cards as she was very credit worthy. It upset me and my sister so much that some scum was going around pretending to be this wonderful lady, and it made me realise how easy it is to do when you put an obituary notice with maiden name d.o.b and address in it. Kate x

It would be so easy for fraudsters now, all they'd do is look for a death of someone their gender and age, get the death cert (or not even bother as it shows the DOB on the GRI for deaths) then look for the birth of that person - they'd have the DOB, name and maiden name and district. Not very safe - this has happened to people - their dearly loved deceased child's ID being stolen for criminal and fake benefit claims - disgusting! Jacquie

I can't remember what information you need to give when registering a birth. Can you just go along and say'My wife had a boy yesterday< we want to name him David'. Get a birth certificate and then apply for family credits etc.?

Hi Karen, As you are applying to ''official departments'they have instant access,to data,, if you ring your bank ,or something simular first thing they ask for after giving name is;; ***and your post code please***

Yes it does, Because these are avalible for public view at FRC ,,because thats all it is;a ref no.name ,where born,but no personal details are shown,,any one can publish a name but not personal data*because someone may not want it displayed they were born to unmaried parents * ,as i said you can put rellies names on your tree but not any personal info* unless you have persons consent *,by way date of birth,date of marriage,(if dead then dont matter )but you cant publish it and by adding these details they have the law behind them to make you remove it if they wish * ;you can put a year of birth for ie john Smith bn 1000.without consent,,, we know we mean no harm,but if you make public these things can and does lead to fraud,but that's why for recent records you need all the relavent info or they have every right to refuse a copy of any cert;its this persons right to data protection and i'm afraid it spills over into family history ;; kay

Ok sorry but now I am even more confused. He is indexed with both surnames. If you search under my maiden name he comes up as fornames my maiden name. If you search under his father's name he comes up as fornames father's name. That is confusing me even more. Why don't they just put forenames surname mother's maiden name? I think this is hurting my head so I must got to bed! Pippa

Since the index only gives the month and year of registration from 1984 along with the Volume, Page and reference numbers they can publish the indexes, BUT if you order the certificate you get the full details. I ordered my birth certificate from the GRO this year by completing thier application form in the same way as I would for an ancester. And I was born in 1983 but I can look up the indexes for my younger siblins and cousind in the same way because I know sufficient infomation about them. Pippa You might want to double cheak the name on the original just incase there is an error on that as well. Accidents happen and not always picked up.

Ok so now I am confused and realise that I have no hope of tracing my relatives. I looked on ancestry to be nosey and there is my little boy on the index with the wrong surname! I know it's him as he is indexed with my maiden name and I have the original certificate in my cupboard downstairs. If they can get it wrong in the last 7 years what hope do we have? Pippa

So, Kay, does that mean my nephews full names with year of birth and quarter with mother's maiden name and where registered is allowed on ancestry without permission?? The full DOB isn't available. AL

Ann-marie, The answer is a big YES you do need a living persons permission,you cant make public any personal information about them unless you have consent,, But you can add their name just omit any dob ,,its called everyones right to Data Protection. If you ring up libaray and ask for name of such a person living at such address from electoral books,they will either confirm that ,surmanes appears at that address but if not they wont tell you who does,but you can walk into libaray and look yourself<< crazy or what.. kay.

These things have always been open to the public at the GRO. Remember in 'The day of the Jackal' how the baddie visited a graveyard and then went to the GRO to get a birth cert and thus create a false ID. Jacquie

I got my own birth certificate from GRO online with just the index number and district.