Genealogy Chat

Every so often I check Free BMD and 1837 online for a birth that I know occurred in late 1859 or 1860 with no avail. According to Free BMD statistics 90-100% of births for those years are complete so maybe she wasn't registered; I have no record of a christening either. On 1861 she was age 1 and on 1871 age 10 etc etc to 1901 and I have her death cert for 1913 so I know she existed!!. In 1901 she was a Commercial Clerk but she never married. My question is; What sort of identification would she have needed in those days to prove who she was? Indeed, were there any circumstances where she would have needed any proof? If so what would she have done? A rhetorical question, I guess, but interesting to know how non-registered persons managed without a birth cert in those days. Katarzyna

Kat.......... just a couple of suggestions.... (1) Local vicar or priest providing a reference(church where baptised) (2) If in the army ,military reference or card.

I think they had problems if they had to claim a pension , but not everyone could claim a pension in those days. I think they could have a letter confirming who they were from a respected member of community, bit like we do for passport applications. Kim

You might have already tried this, but have you tried looking under the mother's maiden name for the birth. I was struggling with children like this for a while, until I cottoned on that they could have been born before marriage and therefore would have the mother's surname - once I knew this I found everyone no problem Regards Sue

The only occasions when you might need a certificate would be: a) To prove you were old enough legally to do something (eg go down the mines, work in factories etc) b) To demonstrate entitlement (eg to a legacy under a will, or when taking out an annuity) Before 1837, vicars would issue baptismal certificates as proof of age. As birth certificates were only compulsory from 1875, your lady would have coped quite adequately without a birth certificate as I imagine that there were few circumstances in which she would have needed proof of age or identity.

Even though FreeBMD has good coverage for those years, you should still check 1837online or The Genealogist between Apr-Jun 1859 and Jul-Sep 1860. You could also try a NameX/SoundX (whatever they call it) variant search at FreeBMD, in case there was a spelling mistake. Also, she could have had a different christian name at birth, and used perhaps her middlename during life (happens plenty of times in my tree) etc. After trying all the above, if she doesn't appear to be registered, you should search for her at the IGI. However, I assume you already know her parents from the census, so it's no big deal really... Order a sibling's birth certificate instead if you need to find out the address or anything. Those days, you could apply for a Certificate Of Baptism from the church for identification.

Kat- giz a butchers,and I'll have a play on a few sites

Thanks all for your imput. The question was retorical Giles as I said, I don't expect to find her now. I have searched every site imaginable and friends on here have already tried to help. I have Ancestry and 1837, origins, Family History and BIVRI, and looked on every new site that comes up on here from time to time. she does not exist!! Norwich RO will be my last resort I think when I have time to go there, maybe someone missed it or it has been really badly mis- transcribed. Now if I tell you Alter Ego, will you promise not to make me look a fool by publishing it on here within the next 5 minutes. You have my e-mail addy. lol, Seriously, if you do find itYou'll be my friend for life and I'll by you a cyber drink ... thats if we can find a place to have one!! Laura Cubitt b c1860 Catfield, Norfolk. 1861 census living as boarder with Crane family, Catfield age 1 mother unknown. Father possibly Charles Cubitt b Yarmouth visitor with George Watts, Inn keeper, The Crown, Catfield, as Son-in-law 1861 census. Laura age 11 living with George Watts, grandfather, retired Inn keeper on 1871 census Go to it Babe!! Extra info On death cert 1913 Laura Edna Cubitt On all censuses POB given as Catfield except 1881 - Ludham which is 3 miles down the road

She was probably born in the same 'black hole' as one of my 2 x gt grandfathers, William MASON. He also claimed to be born in Yarmouth. I have census records and his marriage certificate to Mary Jane SAUNDERS in Devon. The so-and-so wasn't consistent in the ages he gave on the censuses, so trying to trace his birth some time between 1833 and 1840 is a nightmare! I've tried a few of the recorded births, but can't find one with a father who was also a William! Gggggggrrrrrrrr!

Just discussing this very topic with husband - nowadays we have driving licenses, passports, bank cards, library tickets etc and most things you apply for you have to produce some identification etc. But years ago they wouldn't have needed bank cards, or driving licenses or passports. How simple. nell

In the days before birth certificates, one of the most important reasons people needed proof of identity was for inheritance. A marriage certificate was considered to be proof in cases where, for example, a wife who had subsequently remarried was claiming an inheritance for her children from a parent of her first husband (hope that makes sense ~lol~). If you have a number of non-conformists amongst your ancestors (as I do), you will sometimes find that they are baptised or married twice...once in the chapel of their choice, which wasn't recognised legally, and again (sometimes weeks or months apart from the actual event) in an established church. Even worse...the non-conformist records were sometimes destroyed or kept secret.

It's all about the Norfolk Records Office then, unless an LDS centre is closer to where you live... I'd be very surprised if Laura wasn't baptised, consdering she wasn't registered.

I read an article in The Times newspaper of around 1940 where a man wanted to claim his old age pension, but couldn't prove his age. The article quoted how he had been able to give the deatils of his parents and place and date of birth but Somerset house couldn't find anything. They were resorting to the census returns to try and find him as a special case (remembering they were supposed to be closed for 100 years) With the help of Ancestry I looked for him too. No birth cert within five years of the date he gave, but he was on the census (the authorities in 1940 couldn't trace him), aged about 8 years younger than he was stating!!! Assuming that he was mistaken/lying, I wonder if he got his pension??? Merry

Topically, as some of you know, I have just got my husband's gt grandfather 'Grampa Carter''s birth cert. He was registered as McCarthy and the family changed their name at some point between his birth 1866 and the 1871 census. He applied on his 70th birthday for his birth cert, but not knowing he'd had a different surname, the GRO couldn't find it. I wondered if that was to do with a pension, and what he did to prove his age in the absence of a cert. nell

Sorry being nosey now. Was her daughter Annie then? Is there anything on that cert that gives you any clues? Oh and if you are looking at Yarmouth area are you sure she didn't wander into Suffolk. My relatives are from Gorleston that use to be in Suffolk. Pippa

Think I might have sussed this............... :-)

tum tee tum tee tum.........

All watching eastenders or Corrie ?..........

Pippa, Yes her daughter was Annie, I have all the censuses. Annie was my gran, Illigitimate too.. Her mother Laura only on birth cert. She died at Runham near you. Lived in Ipswich too, I have all Laura's history except birth. Oh and Laura had a another illigitimate, a son William. I didn't know of him til I got Lauras death cert!! C'mon Alter, can't wait.

I'm jumping up and down Alter!!:)