Genealogy Chat

I have a marriage certificate for my 2x great Grandfather and Grandmother. It says they were married in The Parish Church in the Parish of St. Mary's in the county of Hull. There were 2 St Mary's in Hull for the time (1858). I have rung the register office and they say they are unable to tell me which one it was. I am trying to find out if they were married in a Catholic or C of E church. Any ideas please? Jeanette x

Jeanette, I would have thought that if it was RC it would be on the cert, dont you. And the vicar, was he signed as Father something? Well, just a thought.

As you have probably guessed Heather, religion is not my strong point! lol I am not from very adventurous stock and most of my ancestors lived not far from where I am now. So I have not had to send for many certs as I have had easy access to the parish registers. And all of my ancestors so far have been C of E so I wouldn't know a Catholic marriage cert if it slapped me round the chops! lol The cert was signed by G W H Tayler, Curate

I would have thought that 'the parish church' indicates that it is C of E.

Have you managed to get any Baptism certificates for their children? If they were Catholic, any children should have been bought up Catholic too and confirmed into the Church. Just an idea! Jan

Hi Jeanette Just putting in my two penn'orth lol! I would agree with the previous replies ... the parish church would more than likely suggest CofE. I'm not Catholic but son is at Catholic school - and I'm fairly sure that they don't have curates either (although I'm happy to be corrected!). I will watch this thread with interest for further info! Mandy :)

Parish churches are Anglican and curates are Anglican too. If there are two St Mary's, can't you just look in both registers? Janice

On an offical certificate, I imagine that 'The Parish Church' would mean the C of E parish, even though the RC church also has 'parishes' (which tend to cover much larger areas). The established church (C of E) is always going to have first call on such a title, and historically, there may have been rules about others not being able to use such terms. Even fairly recently, a RC priest or Methodist minister would not automatically be licenced as a registrar, so that any ceremony in a non-established church would be valid only if a secular registrar attended the ceremony, and the civil vows were incorporated. 'Curate' is often used to mean the assistant ordained priest in the parish, although, in fact, the incumbent (Vicar, Rector) is the Curate - having 'the cure of souls' (responsibility for caring for...)in the area, and any deputy is an 'assistant curate'. Dredging up memories of French lessons... In France the RC incumbent is The Curé - same word, really. I suppose it's the same sort of word as Curator (as in museum/gallery) who is charged with the responsibility of caring for the exhibits. And, just to make life confusing, his assistant is the Vicaire! (presumably performing his ministry 'vicariously', as a stand-in, for the incumbent priest.) Christine

Is the record on YorkshireBMD? For weddings, the specify the venue, and I think they distinguish between denominations, if there's any doubt. Christine

Thanks for your input everyone. I have now discovered that the St Mary's closest to their address at the time of marriage is C of E. BUT I have also discovered an RC St. Mary's too! lol. I will have to go through the parish registers for all St Mary's on my next visit to the records office. The reason I am asking this question is that myself and another member have been trying to establish a link between out 2 families for quite some time now. We both believe they are of Irish origin yet they all seem to be C of E when we would have expected them to be Catholic. It's just another possibility we are looking at.

Hi Christine Yes the marriage is on Yorkshirebmd. William Brady 1858 to Betsey Baker. The reference begins with HT. I'm wondering if this refers to Holy Trinity which is the church just across the road from the one in Lowgate. although a different parish it is sometimes referred to as Holy Trinity and St Mary's

I think the H bit might just be Hull - but that still allows the T bit to be Trinity. Here are some other refs: Church or Chapel Start of Marriages Registers at Code Years indexed All Saints 1837 Hull HAS 1837-1973 Christ Church 1837 Hull HCC 1837-1962 Holy Trinity 1837 Hull HD 1837-1983 St Mary's 1837 Hull HT 1837-1993 St James (Hull) 1837 Hull SJH 1837-1956 St James (Sutton) 1837 Hull HO 1837-1953 St Giles 1837 Hull HL 1837-1949 Christine

Well I good percentage of Irish were protestant or may be even catholics would have changed religion in order to fit in? My hubbys GGP were Irish living in Liverpool. Wife was Catholic and the husband an 'Orange Man' protestant. His mum said she and her siblings alternated what churches they attended!

What does it say under the names, ie ..according to the rites of............ Does that give any clues? I have certificates which show whether people were Cof E, Methodists, Congregationist etc. I think it is probably Cof E that you have.

Hi Gwyneth It says according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church Sounds rather like C of E don't you think?

oh dear Jeanette.......... you know what I want to say, don't you?............ :-) Joy

Joy for all Hull was a thriving fishing port there was no such religion as Church of Haddock! lolol :-)

Jeanette Yes it sounds like C of E to me, too. Gwyn

:-) ok seriously - have we looked on genuki and the rootsweb mailing lists for information about C of E churches in Hull aka Haddock land?! Joy

from GENUKI '''HULL ST MARY, a parish in the county of Kingston upon Hull. The Church of St. Mary, was built before the year 1333, a licence to perform divine offices, &c. therein being then granted, by Archbishop Melton, to the prior and brethren of Ferriby, for the conveniences of that part of the town of Hull which was in their parish. It was formerly more magnificent than it is at present, the greater part of it being demolished by Henry VIII. because it obstructed the prospect from his manor house, when nothing was left standing but the chancel. Part of the materials of the nave and the steeple were employed to enlarge and repair the manor house, and the rest in constructing the block houses which Henry caused to be erected on the eastern bank of the river Hull. In this state of comparative ruin the church remained, till about the year 1570, when a considerable addition was made to the east end of the chancel, by the parishioners, but for more than a century it stood without a Steeple; in 1696 the present steeple was begun, and in the following year it was completed. St Mary's was to Ferriby, what the Holy Trinity was to Hessle, but it is now a parochial chapelry, of which Samuel Thornton, Esq. is the patron; the Rev. John Scott, M. A. the incumbent; and the Rev. William Wilson, the curate. Divine service commences, both in summer and winter, at the same hour as at Trinity Church; there is also service in the evening, which commences at half-past six o'clock. See also Hull.' [Description(s) edited from Langdale's Yorkshire Dictionary (1822) and Baines's Directory of the County of York (1823) and other sources.] Churches Here is a photograph of St Mary's Church, Lowgate, Hull. Church Records The whereabouts and dates of the Registers etc. for the Parish of Hull St Mary. Societies This parish is covered by the following Society: East Yorkshire FHS''