Genealogy Chat

Maureen - of course you can send for it without giving the parents' names. You would only give the parents' names if you want the GRO to check them and not send the certificate if they don't match (it costs less that way). Kate.

Thanks Heather I have just found someone on the records board offereing 1851 look ups, so have written to her, will now keep my fingers crossed. Also going to have a look at GRO and see if i can send for this Martha Ann Smith birth cert for 1850 without giving parents and see what happens, its beginning to bug me this thing. Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. maureen

Someone is offering look ups on here for the 1841 and 1851

NOOOO I don't want ANY more SMITH's - thanks all the same Maureen! My lot are from Oxfordshire, by the way!! Next step for you............await the 1851 census I think!! Merry

Kate, when i looked through that batch number i noticed that there were an awful lot of Williams Smiths as the father and different mothers, i did wonder if William was the local squire with the stories you read about them getting their wicked ways with servants!! No, i havent looked through 1851 census for Norwich, keeping my fingers crossed that it appears on Ancestry pretty soon but going by the different places all the children were born i wouldnt imagine they stayed in Norfolk that long. Someone did look up marriages in the same church as the christening for me, and there is no sign of a marriage for William and Sarah/Ann maureen

Merry I have got a few more Williams, James's, Martha's and Roberts if you want them. At least my Dad was called Augustus Smith!! maureen wouldnt it be funny if we were looking for the same family, i also have a couple of Mary Ann's going spare!! maureen

No a lot of my Norfolk ancestors had very obliging vicars. On some of the marriages pre 1837 he went into detail about the grooms job and also both dads! Thank goodness. Have you checked the 1851 Norfolk census?

... and looking through the 1850 entries for that batch (the Martha Ann Smith one in Norwich), each one I have looked at appears to have the mother's full name including maiden name, so I take it that was just how the vicar liked to record them, and doesn't mean the children were illegitimate. Kate.

Judith Just to add to the fun - Robert shown as being born Battersea on 1861 census, Islington in 1871, havent yet found him in 1881 but did find Charles and Isaac living together with a family called Haswell maureen

SO, if she honestly gave the truth - maybe only mum is down on the certificate and that is yours. And I would think the christening is right - 2 months after the birth and in dads parish of birth. Mum probably went back home to have the baby and it was registered there.

And it is often helpful to look at the actual parish register or through a load of entries in the same batch on the IGI to see if most of the baptisms give mother's surname as different from the father's because if this is so, it means that was just how they recorded the baptisms in the parish - they liked to add in the mother's maiden name - rather than that all the children were illegitimate. Kate.

I spent ages looking for my GGPx2 marriage - they actually married 17 years after first child born Stepney. Got one of the younger kids birth certs (older ones not registered) and great sigh of relief, mothers name - yep, Mary Ann Smith. BUT I could then find the marriage and got the cert and her dad was William WEBB Smith which was such a great help and he was a customs officer. But I must say my heart dropped after all that searching and then saw her surname!

Oh, and if you were questioning why it says 'abt. 1851' for her birthdate on the census, unfortunately nearly all these websites helpfully subtract the person's age from the year of the census to give you an estimated year of birth, but as censuses are always in the first half of the year this more often than not gives a result which is one year out! If only they just reported the age as it is given on the census and left us to calculate year of birth ourselves... anyway, that means that if a census index or transcription gives her year of birth as about 1851 it is more likely she was born in 1850! Kate.

Heather - Oh I see....I took having the mother's surname on the baptism to mean the baby was illegitimate! Don't you just hate the name William Smith Gggrrrr - I have over a dozen on my tree and they seem to cost SOOOO much to sort out! Merry

Maureen - a census doesn't show who somebody's mother is unless the mother is actually the head of household, i.e. the father is not there. If your census entry contains head, wife, and children, you cannot assume that the wife is the mother of any of the children as she could have married their father any time, i.e. she could be his second wife (or indeed he never married the children's mother). Also, you can't trust the first name as given on the census to be the person's actual first name, as you will often find they are listed on the census by the name they were usually called, be it a middle name, nickname, or whatever, but on certificates, baptisms, marriages etc. you are more likely to find their full name. So for example a Sarah Ann or Martha Ann who was usually called Ann might well be Ann on the census. Kate.

Sorry!!! Disregard what i just wrote about the date of birth - this is doing my head in. maureen

Heather Yes, i realized that Lowestoft and Yarmouth were pretty near each other and that Lowestoft is now Suffolk, i presumed there had been some boundary changes. That is the cert i sent off for. On the IGI (Batch No C132672) she is down as Martha Ann SMITH christening 18 Aug 1850 Saint Peter Southgate Norwich Norfolk parents William Smith, Sarah Ann Tinkler so i couldnt see how she could be christened before she was born, but as i said, began doubting what the IGI said. maureen

The 1861 census has her birth place as Lowestoft in Suffolk: William Smith Head Mar 43 painter Norwich Ann Smith 34 Wife Mar Huntingdonshire St Ives Martha Smith daughter 10 Suffolk Lowestoft Robert Smith Son 8 Middlesex Balls Pond Mary Smith Dau 3 Middlesex Poplar William Smith son 15 m Surrey Southwark Lowestoft was in Mutford registration district

Dont think so, dad was William Smith, mum Ann Tinkler. I dont think we know Martha Ann was illegitimate - just havent found the parents marriage as yet.

Heather - I thought the birth reg was supposed to be in the name Tinkler? Merry