Genealogy Chat

Ann found my Ann Chowns as Ann Thomas. I must say that if you didn't KNOW it should say Chowns, you could read it as Thomas - especially as there is another person on the same page whose surname is Thomas. So now when I am looking for Chowns, I will add Thomas to my list of variants!!! nell - very grateful to all the fab people on this site, what would I do without them?!

nudge any ideas folks? nell

Thought if I could find the Crane servants with their 1851 employer it would help eliminate them, but here's the 1851 lot, decamped, changed place of birth slightly, new servants: Mary M Blane abt 1804 St George Plandle Bs Head Bathwick Somerset Robt A Blane abt 1845 Elthill, Buckinghamshire, England Son Bathwick Somerset Cecelia V Brown abt 1838 Ayrshire, Scotland Daughter Bathwick Somerset Wm Jas Jno George Dawn abt 1835 Bath, Somerset Son-in-law Bathwick Somerset Mary Ann Hill abt 1832 Wells, Somerset Servant Bathwick Somerset Amelia King abt 1838 Devizes, Wiltshire Servant Bathwick Somerset Gore Onesley abt 1827 East Indies Bs Visitor Bathwick Somerset So 'Mr & Mrs Crane' haven't died, moved or got remarried. But I KNOW that John Crane isn't John Smoothy. What I don't know is the connection between Ann Chowns b 1826 Farnham Royal who married John Smoothy in Lambeth district 1858 Ann Chowns, unmarried, no occupation given who gave birth to illegitimate baby in Salt Hill, Farnham in 1850 Hannah Crane, who registered said illegitimate baby's death in 1850 in Salt Hill Farnham Ann Crane, b. 1826 Farnham Royal, who appears to be married to man old enough to be grandfather, living Upton cum Chalvey on 1851 census, very close to Salt Hill. any further thoughts, anyone? nell

Well now. No marriage of any kind to anyone for John Crane. Can't find a marriage for Ann Chowns before her wedding in 1858 to John Smoothy. No baptism for John Crane and I can't find him on 1861 census either, or a likely death. Gnashing of teeth! nell

Oh Judith, I think the illegitimate baby is a big enough scandal! Her husband John Smoothy later became the beadle and overseer of the poor, very respectable! Off to check for possible Chowns/Crane marriage now. nell

The antics of my family suggest that people would often tell the truth to the registrar, hence Ann registered her illegitimate child in her own surname, but were happier to lie to the census enumerator; so it still could be that Ann was living with Mr Crane as his wife, and claimed to be Ann Crane on the census return though they hadn't actually married.

Jennifer Not a lot of rubbish, it had crossed my mind, but Ann Chowns registered her baby's birth in her own name. Of course she didn't give an occupation and her address is 'Salt Hill, Farnham' which is nicely vague. Upton cum Chalvey, where Ann Crane (possibly Hannah) is on 1851 census is now two districts of Slough, one called Chalvey and the other Upton. The address Ann Crane was at was Upton Park, which is a road in Slough just a short way away from another place called Salt Hill. I'm wondering if Ann Chowns was in service with Ann/Hannah when she got pregnant and then after her baby's birth and death, moved elsewhere. She would have had to work and presumably would have been a domestic servant, but I don't know where. Her next appearance is to get married in Kennington Church in Surrey and of course no occupation is given on her marriage cert! I did try to find her in 1841 in Buckinghamshire when I was at the FRC, but no joy. Curses! Any other suggestions more than welcome! nell

Only a vague idea as I don't have all the info of what is obviously a long running story! Could your Ann Chowns born 1826 Bucks have: 1. Had baby in 1850 registered by Hannah Crane (is Hannah's capacity described on birth cert? Usually it say 'mother' or 'father'?) 2.Married John Crane (she possibly knew Crane family already, based on child's birth cert) 3. Appeared on 1851 census with him. He appears much older than her? (I can't check image on Ancestry as I am pay as you view & only have 1 credit left, but the transcribed record makes him appear very much older?) 4. John Crane dies. 5. Ann meets & marries John Smoothy in 1858. Doesn't tell registrar that she was actually a widow previously called Crane? (One of my hubby's lot seems to have married as a 'bachelor' when actually it seems he was a widower!) 6. Appears with new family ever after. Apologies if this is a load of rubbish that you have already discounted for various reasons long ago!! P.S Just realised Hannah registered baby's death, not birth! But still appears Ann Chowns knew at least one person called Crane.

I see the original image has him as Smarthy (!) The place name looks like Chindford but I think it could be Chelmsford, which was his birthplace. Desperate to find Ann. I have searched on all Anns/Annes born 1826 +/- 2 years in Buckinghamshire, all Cho* surnames ditto. Zilch. HELP!!!

David You are BRILLIANT! I felt that this must be right, as John settled in Richmond for most of his life. When I saw the household transcript I nearly jumped for joy! He is a servant for Sarah Woodroffe. My mum has the family bible which was presented to John the Christmas following his marriage, which is inscribed 'a present from Mrs Woodroffe' and I've been puzzling who she is for ages - SO WELL DONE YOU!!!! A very grateful Little Nell!

How can we blame our semi illiterate enumerators for writing names down wrongly? when in this day and age we STILL get mistranscriptions, (see above) for what I believe SHOULD be CHINGFORD.essex. Bob tongue in cheek and head below parapet!!!

Hi Nell Try John Smarthy in Richmond Surrey born 1812 Chdindford Essex! John and Essex were right! You're lucky his name wasn't Kevin otherwise you'd never have found him. david

Not sure how you get from Ann Chown to Hannah Crane. What happens if yoy go through the places you have page by page? Pippa

Ann It's not accessible from Ancestry main site yet - though I think it will be soon. You can find it here: www.1851-census.co.uk/

Heather My John Smoothy didn't marry until 1858, and neither did Ann (unless they were both telling porkies on their marriage cert). John was a gentleman's servant on marriage cert and then worked briefly as a butler before running a lodging house and becoming the beadle in Richmond, Surrey. I seriously doubt that either of them left the country, but am sure they would both be servants in a house somewhere, I just don't know where! nell

That one in Essex looked good - def not yours? I wonder if he were a gentlemens servant and possibly she was a servant too, would it be possible they were travelling at the time of the census and therefore not in the country?

Heather & Merry Thank you for your input. Sadly, these aren't the right Chowns or Smoothy!!! I thought these two would be really easy, as their names are so unusual. But not a bit of it. Thanks again for your time and trouble. Diane I could do that if I knew where they were roughly, but I don't! Heather Don't get me started... I have seen the original parish registers for both baptisms so I know they had the right names. nell ps possible baby born to Ann was in 1850.

Not the Smoothy guy again - he is as bad as my Wyles! He didnt invent the Smoothy drink did he, Nell? You can add that to your stories when you tell the grandchildren about him!

John Smoothy abt 1811 Weathersfield, Essex, England Head John Smoothy abt 1838 Blk Notley, Essex, England Son Sarah Smoothy abt 1815 Bocking, Essex, England Wife Sarah Smoothy abt 1839 Blk Notley, Essex, England Daug Thomas Smoothy abt 1846 Bocking, Essex, England Son Eliza Smoothy abt 1847 Bocking, Essex, England Daughter George Smoothy abt 1850 Bocking, Essex, England Son All living in Bocking Essex (John was an Ag Lab not likely to end up as a gentleman's servant I s'pose!!)) Was your John a batchelor/widower when he married Ann? Saz NB - If Ann had her baby in 1851 (out of wedlock) she may well have been using a different name?

I suppose you will have seen this one??? >>>>Ann Chown abt 1829 High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England Granddaughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire Rachel Chown abt 1783 Medmenham, Buckinghamshire, England Wife Medmenham Buckinghamshire Ruth Chown abt 1850 Gt Marlow, Buckinghamshire, England Granddaughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire William Chown abt 1781 Gt Marlow, Buckinghamshire, England Head Medmenham Buckinghamshire Elizabeth Slade abt 1846 High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire Martha Slade abt 1823 Medmenham, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire Details don't quite fit tightly enough, do they?? When was the baby born? Merry