Genealogy Chat

Thanks to David, who found John Smoothy as John Smarthy and Ann, who found Ann Chowns as Ann Thomas.

Trying to find my great-great grandparents. I have them from 1858, when they married in Kennington, Surrey, onwards. But between their baptisms and marriage, nothing. Had a good go at 1851, using just first names/surnames + county etc and looking for likely mistranscriptions. NOTHING. Any suggestions? JOHN SMOOTHY born abt 1812, Chelmsford, Essex. In 1858 when he married, he was a gentleman's servant. ANN CHOWNS born abt. 1826 in Farnham Royal, Buckinghamshire (though on some censuses she says Stoke - for Stoke Poges). I have a birth cert for an illegitimate child born to an Ann Chowns in 1851 in Salt Hill, Farnham, Bucks. The baby died aged 7 weeks. I have a suspicion this could be MY Ann's child, but have no proof. The baby's death was registered by Hannah Crane. I've found an Ann Crane, b. Farnham 1826 (same age/birthplace as my Ann Chowns) working as a servant in Upton Park, Upton cum Chalvey, Bucks, with her husband John. nell

Have you tried going through the parts not yet indexed. I found one of mine like that, only really a possibility if you know where roughly they should be. Go to the bottom where it has the county names click on the one you want and see what villages/towns come up click on yours if its there and then browse the whole place. It's worked for me on several different census years Hope you get lucky Diane

I suppose you will have seen this one??? >>>>Ann Chown abt 1829 High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England Granddaughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire Rachel Chown abt 1783 Medmenham, Buckinghamshire, England Wife Medmenham Buckinghamshire Ruth Chown abt 1850 Gt Marlow, Buckinghamshire, England Granddaughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire William Chown abt 1781 Gt Marlow, Buckinghamshire, England Head Medmenham Buckinghamshire Elizabeth Slade abt 1846 High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire Martha Slade abt 1823 Medmenham, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Medmenham Buckinghamshire Details don't quite fit tightly enough, do they?? When was the baby born? Merry

John Smoothy abt 1811 Weathersfield, Essex, England Head John Smoothy abt 1838 Blk Notley, Essex, England Son Sarah Smoothy abt 1815 Bocking, Essex, England Wife Sarah Smoothy abt 1839 Blk Notley, Essex, England Daug Thomas Smoothy abt 1846 Bocking, Essex, England Son Eliza Smoothy abt 1847 Bocking, Essex, England Daughter George Smoothy abt 1850 Bocking, Essex, England Son All living in Bocking Essex (John was an Ag Lab not likely to end up as a gentleman's servant I s'pose!!)) Was your John a batchelor/widower when he married Ann? Saz NB - If Ann had her baby in 1851 (out of wedlock) she may well have been using a different name?

Not the Smoothy guy again - he is as bad as my Wyles! He didnt invent the Smoothy drink did he, Nell? You can add that to your stories when you tell the grandchildren about him!

Heather & Merry Thank you for your input. Sadly, these aren't the right Chowns or Smoothy!!! I thought these two would be really easy, as their names are so unusual. But not a bit of it. Thanks again for your time and trouble. Diane I could do that if I knew where they were roughly, but I don't! Heather Don't get me started... I have seen the original parish registers for both baptisms so I know they had the right names. nell ps possible baby born to Ann was in 1850.

That one in Essex looked good - def not yours? I wonder if he were a gentlemens servant and possibly she was a servant too, would it be possible they were travelling at the time of the census and therefore not in the country?

Heather My John Smoothy didn't marry until 1858, and neither did Ann (unless they were both telling porkies on their marriage cert). John was a gentleman's servant on marriage cert and then worked briefly as a butler before running a lodging house and becoming the beadle in Richmond, Surrey. I seriously doubt that either of them left the country, but am sure they would both be servants in a house somewhere, I just don't know where! nell

Ann It's not accessible from Ancestry main site yet - though I think it will be soon. You can find it here: www.1851-census.co.uk/

Not sure how you get from Ann Chown to Hannah Crane. What happens if yoy go through the places you have page by page? Pippa

Hi Nell Try John Smarthy in Richmond Surrey born 1812 Chdindford Essex! John and Essex were right! You're lucky his name wasn't Kevin otherwise you'd never have found him. david

How can we blame our semi illiterate enumerators for writing names down wrongly? when in this day and age we STILL get mistranscriptions, (see above) for what I believe SHOULD be CHINGFORD.essex. Bob tongue in cheek and head below parapet!!!

David You are BRILLIANT! I felt that this must be right, as John settled in Richmond for most of his life. When I saw the household transcript I nearly jumped for joy! He is a servant for Sarah Woodroffe. My mum has the family bible which was presented to John the Christmas following his marriage, which is inscribed 'a present from Mrs Woodroffe' and I've been puzzling who she is for ages - SO WELL DONE YOU!!!! A very grateful Little Nell!

I see the original image has him as Smarthy (!) The place name looks like Chindford but I think it could be Chelmsford, which was his birthplace. Desperate to find Ann. I have searched on all Anns/Annes born 1826 +/- 2 years in Buckinghamshire, all Cho* surnames ditto. Zilch. HELP!!!

Only a vague idea as I don't have all the info of what is obviously a long running story! Could your Ann Chowns born 1826 Bucks have: 1. Had baby in 1850 registered by Hannah Crane (is Hannah's capacity described on birth cert? Usually it say 'mother' or 'father'?) 2.Married John Crane (she possibly knew Crane family already, based on child's birth cert) 3. Appeared on 1851 census with him. He appears much older than her? (I can't check image on Ancestry as I am pay as you view & only have 1 credit left, but the transcribed record makes him appear very much older?) 4. John Crane dies. 5. Ann meets & marries John Smoothy in 1858. Doesn't tell registrar that she was actually a widow previously called Crane? (One of my hubby's lot seems to have married as a 'bachelor' when actually it seems he was a widower!) 6. Appears with new family ever after. Apologies if this is a load of rubbish that you have already discounted for various reasons long ago!! P.S Just realised Hannah registered baby's death, not birth! But still appears Ann Chowns knew at least one person called Crane.

Jennifer Not a lot of rubbish, it had crossed my mind, but Ann Chowns registered her baby's birth in her own name. Of course she didn't give an occupation and her address is 'Salt Hill, Farnham' which is nicely vague. Upton cum Chalvey, where Ann Crane (possibly Hannah) is on 1851 census is now two districts of Slough, one called Chalvey and the other Upton. The address Ann Crane was at was Upton Park, which is a road in Slough just a short way away from another place called Salt Hill. I'm wondering if Ann Chowns was in service with Ann/Hannah when she got pregnant and then after her baby's birth and death, moved elsewhere. She would have had to work and presumably would have been a domestic servant, but I don't know where. Her next appearance is to get married in Kennington Church in Surrey and of course no occupation is given on her marriage cert! I did try to find her in 1841 in Buckinghamshire when I was at the FRC, but no joy. Curses! Any other suggestions more than welcome! nell

The antics of my family suggest that people would often tell the truth to the registrar, hence Ann registered her illegitimate child in her own surname, but were happier to lie to the census enumerator; so it still could be that Ann was living with Mr Crane as his wife, and claimed to be Ann Crane on the census return though they hadn't actually married.

Oh Judith, I think the illegitimate baby is a big enough scandal! Her husband John Smoothy later became the beadle and overseer of the poor, very respectable! Off to check for possible Chowns/Crane marriage now. nell

Well now. No marriage of any kind to anyone for John Crane. Can't find a marriage for Ann Chowns before her wedding in 1858 to John Smoothy. No baptism for John Crane and I can't find him on 1861 census either, or a likely death. Gnashing of teeth! nell